Putty on My Saints? - Advice and Next Steps
philographer
Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have three Saints that I believe were doctored and have now turned in their holders. All show a thin milky / cloudy film on both obverse and reverse. Discovered on a recent trip to my SDB. Sad.
Questions for the Board:
Do you believe these have been puttied? Or is something else at play?
If I sent these to PCGS under the “Guarantee Resubmission”, what is the likely cost and outcome? Would the putty be removed and the coins re-graded and returned to me?
What are my other options? I don’t know that there are any, besides hold them for gold value. I don’t believe in passing them on to an unsuspecting buyer...not nice!
Some photos below. I had to take a few at an angle in natural light to show the affected areas.
Thanks for any thoughts and advice!
The first is a 1915-S in MS 64:
The second is a 1927 in MS64:
The third and last is a 1908 NM in 63. I got it cheap (but apparently not cheap enough😜):
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Comments
PCGS should take care of that; it may take 2-3 months though. An alternative would be using acetone yourself and dipping off the offending substance and probably getting about the same grade. I have had a number of $20s with the same problem and they usually grade the same or even better. Of course you lose the guarantee if you do it yourself or through a trusted friend.
I don't think any of that was put on there intentionally.
Looks like it could be residue from storage in old flips or greasy finger smudges.
If so, acetone or laquer thinner would take it right off.
I know almost nothing about putty on coins, but I always thought it was used to fill or cover defects, but your coins look like they possibly had a bad dip job or an inadequate rinse.
Or, maybe there are environmental issues in your SDB? Did you buy all these at the same time from the same person? If so, maybe they all got a bad bath. If not, maybe the conditions in your SDB are less than ideal (too humid/damp, other contaminants in your SDB or ones nearby, etc.).
Pretty disappointing, as I don't expect gold to "turn" like this.
If I had to choose, I would want our host to do it. I would guess they would do whatever is next and correct to conserve the coins. Peace Roy
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Agree above.
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@philographer - your day just got a little brighter than it started out. The assessments above are promising. Wouldn't it be a hoot if you had them conserved and reholdered and some of them upgraded.
@philographer
Just curious, did you buy all three from the same dealer?
All we can tell is that they are the same vintage of holder.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
I bought them from different sellers on eBay, all during the summer of 2010.
My SDB is in a new bank building, air conditioned, and no adverse effects on other coins or paper.
I appreciate the replies so far!
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Putty, smutty, cruddy. At one time, putting "skin" on a gold coin was the "only" way to go. It made the coins look more attractive. Over time many of them turned.
Whether the surface of those coins was altered intentionally or whether they came right out of a Swiss Bank. It looks like "putty."
I say do nothing. The coins are slabbed by a top TPGS. They are nothing special. They are stable. There is little premium over melt. Why put more money into them when it will add nothing? If you insist on spending money, Let the TPGS do the job.
don't do it - acetone and lacquer thinner really screw up the slabs, and you won't be able to see the coin.
Not really clear that it is putty on the first two (imo). Looks more like some residue from a previous flip etc. Third one looks like putty. Not sure going through restoration is cost effective. Since you know they are genuine and not cleaned per PCGS crack them out, hit them with acetone and put them in a PVC free holder.
I would crack them and give them an acetone soak...Then, if you want to sell them either send in for slabbing or give a discount...Cheers, RickO
Why throw away the grading fee when you can send them back to PCGS and let them fix their mistake under their grade guarantee? They should conserve them and the re-slab them for you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Ya, but then you won't see the putty, which is the problem. Then you can really sell them "sight-unseen!"
What brand of putty is best?
Acme all-purpose. Recommended by Mr. W. Coyote. Works best with Acme Invisible solvent also guaranteed to remain clear for a month or two while the coin is being graded.
You may want to preserve the grade so send it in to our host. They are beautiful coins!
I don't see putty. My guess is PVC.
PCGS can/will conserve them with satisfactory results. It will not be free but it will be worth it (keeping the grade guarantee and getting them into new, problem-free holders).
Lance.
Agree. It will be far from free by the time you pay postage both ways and their conservation fees. It will keep them in their graded holders but you will have a chunk of money into them. If it were me I would describe the issues and sell them.
Just save your money and sell the coins as is. At one time they were all over the market. Now they are disappearing at a slow rate.
They are what they are and the stuff does not hurt the coins.
Look at this one for sale now...(Double click on image & scroll to enlarge ALL THE WAY)
https://coins.ha.com/itm/saint-gaudens-double-eagles/double-eagles/1923-d-20-ms66-pcgs/i/734779042.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
Look over HER left shoulder, both sides of neck & down HER right thigh.
What do you think?
Could someone enlarge & post this image? I can't get it to work.
My Saint Set
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@ReadyFireAim that almost does look like putty as it's conveniently right where a scratch is...
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@ReadyFireAim
Maybe true, but it might be better to not comment on coins that are currently for sale or auction. It's possible that someone here owns the coin and won't appreciate the unwanted scrutiny.
Unwanted scrutiny? I’d assume that they’re trying to hide something if their item can’t stand up to legitimate scrutiny.
Arright. Just trying to help someone avoid unpleasant adventures in the future. I've been guilty of etiquette violations here in the past and once I got over being called out, I genuinely appreciated being set straight. The photos are in the auction and we can all see them. Those who bid without carefully inspecting the coin in-hand or at least taking a good, careful look at the photos deserve to get what they get.
It lives in a TPG slab, has already been scrutinized by two or three professional graders (possibly before problems were evident), comes with a grade guarantee, has a lot description, and reasonably good photos. All coins have flaws. Pointing them out publicly when the auction is still open just makes waves and might not endear you to the consignor.
From the pics I sure can’t make a judgment call. But, from what I CAN see I don’t think it’s putty but some other type of residue rearing it’s ugly head.
Pretty coins by the way.
I think the scratch on her right thigh is more telling.
BTW...I really hope someone would tell me if one of my coins had a flaw that I might have missed.
...(that would be mortifying but absolutely necessary)
I would be very grateful.
Or...If I had one for sale
BTW...I'm a collecter, not a dealer.
My Saint Set