Is Light Finish 2018 S Kennedy Silver Reverse actually an ERROR under the definition?
Paradisefound
Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
A dear friend is sending me a couple PCGSPR70 First Strikes for a favor rendered.
I am very intrigued when I started to read about these Kennedy Halves ....
Is it important to pair mine with a so called 'Light Finish'?
I know this much ..... that due to improper die preparation the significant contrast finish was impaired on the coin's field.
However I did not find any attribute on PCGS label for such except the claim by seller that it is.
Calling on @ErrorsOnCoins and Kennedy Half fans to opine 
2
Comments
NGC is recognizing them, PCGS declined to acknowledge them.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
I have seen these and it seems like some are trying to get these recognized.
This.
The only part is already been recognized is the price I see
I believe it should be considered a variety, not an error. It is a die that was prepared differently, so the entire run from that die is identical.
I agreed with you because there is NOTHING wrong ERROR-wise other than a slightly matte (r) look
Are both of the op's coins supposed to be reverse proofs? Thanks for the clarification in advance
The 1st coin is Proof compare to 2nd as a slightly less mirror field due to lack of die preparation
I will post better pictures once I receive them.
I agree with a second variety die run. Do we know what the run pop was on that? Did they cut it short? Peace Roy
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Doesn't appear so. Best guess at population is 10 to 20,000
I have not seen these in hand. The photos do show a difference. NGC says yes PCGS so no, so what do I know?
@ErrorsOnCoins as intended above, light finish below
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
No. Within the normal range of operation.
Wow. Even i can see the difference!
This is clearly not true if you've ever seen one in hand. If not, how can you be so definitive.
An interesting variation....I doubt it will ever command much of a premium other than the short period we are in now. I would put one in the Kennedy album though, just to have it. Cheers, RickO
IMO, when something does not look as it was intended it is an error! However, once something is "off" it becomes a matter of degree and acceptance. Additionally, the reason the "error" occurred is important. For example if a stamp is suppose to be rose colored, there will often be several different shades. If it is printed in green, that is an error.
This appears to be caused by a missing or incomplete step in the treatment of the die. It is a shade. Time will tell if it is important to collectors.
IMO, it would be nice if the TPGS's could agree on a few things such as this.
I have not seen any of the coins in person, but on other RPs I have, the fields are almost grainy. If this new variety is more satin, then is would appear to be a different coin.
As for "variety" vs. "error", I tend to lean toward variety. An error may have been made in the preparation of the die, but all the coins struck from that die share the same anomaly (think 1955 DD cent).
I purchased a set from a forum member, when placed side by side there is a definite difference in finish, it looks to me as being more of a Matte finish than proof.
The Kennedy is a proof, I do believe also that a process was missed during the manufacture of the die that struck these examples.
I'm on the fence, so to speak, as to 'Error' or 'Variety'
It is important to me as a collector since a marked difference is noticed.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Because that is within the normal range of operation - although the obverse die appears to have been run too long. Doesn't make it anything special except possibly an inferior example. Not worthy of anything special except return for replacement. The TPG "discovery" is nonsense and a poor example of "authentication."
This is simply NOT true. And for someone who considers himself a researcher, you should at least look at one closely before passing judgment.
The population of these is 10,000 to 20,000. So, it is far more likely a single ill-prepared die rather than a fatigued die unless ALL the dies were run too long.
In hand, the finish of the sandblasted regions is radically different. If this is simple die fatigue, why is there no loss of sharpness on Kennedy's bust?
It is no different than hundreds of other examples of the same kind of thing happening with various shiny proof coins. I've examined thousands of proof coins of all "kinds" and this is nothing special or deliberately made. Reminds me of the nonsense about "PL" Saint-Gaudens eagle-size bullion pieces - entirely normal.
Well said, Mr. Breen
PCGS "Is it an Error or a Variety?" https://www.pcgs.com/news/is-it-an-error-or-a-variety
"PCGS Variety Program" https://www.pcgs.com/varietyfaq
NGC "Variety vs. Mint Error" https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/1655/Variety-versus-Mint-Error/
NGC graded "Light Finish" count https://www.ngccoin.com/census/united-states/kennedy-half-dollars-1964-date/44/?c=825087
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
Wow, So NGC has over 600 in 70 for the light finish??
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How come the regular RP isn't on that list?
Is this mean NGC will label such variety and if you have one ..... it would not be if PCGS grade it? Will our host grade it as a 'less than perfect' coin then?
Interesting variant. Until I see one in the flesh, I think I prefer the contrast on the coins that were made with "normal" die.
Because the trail I followed was thus:
1 - https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/1655/Variety-versus-Mint-Error/
2 - https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/
3 - https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/
4 - https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/half-dollars/
5 - https://www.ngccoin.com/variety-plus/united-states/half-dollars/kennedy-half-dollars-1964-date/
6 - change filter to "PF" on far right
7 - scroll to bottom
8 - click "NGC census"
9 - https://www.ngccoin.com/census/united-states/kennedy-half-dollars-1964-date/44/?c=825087 and Bob's your uncle.
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
The normal one DEFINITELY looks better. But the key, from where I stand, is that the "variant" (I like that term) is VERY DIFFERENT...no matter what Roger Breen says.
NGC has slabbed some and many are already on eBay. PCGS just slabs them the same as the others. Wondercoin had a variant in a PCGS 70 slab, so it is not obvious that they are penalizing the coins for the finish. [I wonder what Roger would say to that since he thinks it's "die fatigue"...oh, I know..."gradeflation".]
NGC seems to put everything in a 70 lately. Look at their Block Island 70 population relative to PCGS. That's why a PCGS reverse proof 70 set is going for $1500+ and an NGC is about $450.
By the way, if you want a kind of funny Kennedy variant story:
I sold a pair to a guy on eBay. He emailed me to complain they look like the regular one. I said, not if you compare side-by-side. He sent me a picture like the one at the top which makes the variant look black. I sent him a better picture of one in an NGC slab. He then realized that the set he got from the Mint was ALSO A VARIANT! LOL.
There really is nothing like seeing them side by side.
The variety is night and day with the regular reverse proof Kennedy. I showed them to PCGS side by side early on, but they declined to officially recognize the variety. Shortly thereafter, I passed my findings on to Miles and Rick at NGC and a day or two later they officially recognized the “light finish”. So, I have plenty of the coins in PCGS holders, unrecognized, since all my grading has been with PCGS. And, Justin will sell them that way on eBay. If a huge spread develops in NGC’s favor, I might need to consider other actions.
Wondercoin.
This is my dilemma exactly here; I need to trust my eyes for the variety one in PCGS slab to match the other
If you see them side-by-side, there is no question.
well PCGS is never going to recognize this because NGC did so first. Thats just how it has to be. If you consider yourself to be the top dog you have to pretend that no one else can ever have a good idea.
WOOF WOOF
It's not an "idea"/... it's a real thing
I like the term "Light Finish" to describe the difference. Essentially that's what it is.
Pete
Actually, I would prefer something more specific. "Burnished" or "Proof like" (Proof-light?
) "Specimen" I don't know. "Light finish" to me sounds like they forgot to put the second coat of lacquer on it.
fine but the share price is in the tank and it wouldn't look good
I get your point. PROOF LIGHT=BUD LIGHT=DON'T TASTE AS GOOD AS REGULAR BUD=DON'T LOOK AS GOOD AS REGULAR PROOF.
Whew!
I quit!
Pete
Any more revelations on populations of these varieties? Seems like the most accurate sampling would be from PCGS certification ratios since they were graded without bias light or not. NGC pops are skewed since they did not attribute until later in the game -- so they have many holders out there incorrectly labeled.
@wondercoin originally thought around 10% are light, still true?
I picked up a group of pr69s recently and almost all were the light variety.
How bout if they were mounted together in a double slab to compliment the difference? Peace Roy
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"@wondercoin originally thought around 10% are light, still true?"
I would be comfortable saying that roughly 10%-20% of the entire mintage was produced with "light finish". It might have still been closer to 10%, but if it was eventually shown to be around 15% or 16%, that would not surprise me at all.
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Thanks for the quick response Mitch. Very helpful.
It's always fun when a new variety comes up with moderns -- and they don't come up that often. The 08 silver eagle with 07 reverse was a crazy time. Even the "light" finish 5 oz pucks early on were good fun (and $) when they were recognized. I sold a Hot Springs Light PCGS earlier this year for a nice premium.
I'm in the camp that these are a cool variety.
A double set is another interesting idea Nam!
Any more revelations on populations of these varieties? Seems like the most accurate sampling would be from PCGS certification ratios since they were graded without bias light or not.
NGC pops are skewed since they did not attribute until later in the game -- so they have many holders out there incorrectly labeled.
Yup, I bought 4 sets of NGC 70's early on (got Ebay bucks) and all four that have just the ER designation are also "Light Finish" but I can't see how to extrapolate light finish pops from PCGS numbers that are 100% normal RP...
I should add that that 10% +/- number goes with NGC pops with a tad over 15k graded and 5500 with the variety designation...adding a bit for those not attributed might approach 15% +/- which is a decent minority
Has anyone seen anything official released by the Mint or are they just ignoring it?