Share or Don't Share Tell all or Keep Secret. What do you think?
Insider2
Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
INTRODUCTION:
In the 1960's there was little information about detecting C/F or altered coins. Much of it was done by simple measurement. When I joined a certification service I recall a few books on coinmaking and errors, one large binder with images of C/F gold from a European source, and one pamphlet by B. Harsche containing diagnostics for a few commonly faked US coins.
I'm happy to report that within a few months we surpassed all of those initial resources. Now we had a dilemma. I've related before that some thought we should reveal everything we knew and others insisted we tell nothing. The diagnostics of the new fakes should be kept a secret so the counterfeiters would not improve. In the end, we shared some things; yet in hindsight, it probably would have been better to say nothing as it would have made our job easier and possibly taken longer for the fakes of today to become so deceptive.
PROBLEM:
Look, I realize that anyone can "discover" new things with research and experimentation; HOWEVER, In a recent thread, I stupidly shared one of those "proprietary" secrets in a PM with a very novice collector - this time dealing with coin conservation - that I had stumbled upon in the 1970's while reading a commonly available book back then. In fact, while I used it to conserve coins at NCS, I shared it with very few folks. Now that our new "expert" has "spilled-the-beans" after I "suggested" that he keep both my help and what I told him to himself - one formerly obscure method of cleaning coins is there for all to see. Hopefully, this will not result in any coins being destroyed as others try this "trick."
QUESTION:
What do you think? You find a new, unlisted variety. Do you share or look for more?
You discover a new type of defect seen on every "extremely deceptive modern fake" do you alert your peers?
You know of a sure-fire way to quickly remove milk-spots from silver. Do you tell your fellow collectors how easy it can be done or do you keep it to yourself and become rich?
Interesting dilemma?
Comments
By sharing proper conservation techniques you can save many coins from being ruined. Collectors are going to screw with their coins no matter how often you warn them not to. How many coin collectors who have been actively collecting for several years can honestly say they've never cleaned or otherwise attempted to improve one of their coins?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
New collectors and people who inherit collections knowing nothing about coins pose the biggest problem I think. They think they can "improve" them and ruin them in the process. They aren't going to bother to learn. Inform your heirs.
I would not broadcast trade secrets concerning authentication methods. Unless the tip off can be plainly seen.
SOME things need to be kept a secret.
Pete
I may have suggested 'tell all you know'....... please tell me what it is that you told the novice collector in private if you wish. I have had some good and some bad deals with NCS. All bad deals were my fault of course.
That is a tough question that I have to think long and hard about before I cast my vote
great post @Insider2
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
...loose lips sink ships...don’t let your mouth ruin what your eyes see
If you check out recent related threads you can figure it out on your own
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Say you discover a new "big" variety on a newly minted coin.
Here is the way to do it.
Tell no one. Buy all the rolls, boxes, of the same batch that you can get ahold of. Pond the sand, Find them.
Then, The variety will need to be promoted in order for you to capitalize on your find. See If a coin magazine will run that variety. Promote, promote, promote. Release the coins very slowly.
My grandmother had a small cache of coins. Silver walkers, Morgans, a few Peace Dollars, a bunch of Mercury Dimes, a herd of Buffalo Nickels, and before she passed away I asked to see them. To my horror, she had tried cleaning them all. Not knowing anything about coins, she gave them a nice scrub in bleach.
I totally agree Smudge. Some things should not be kept secret. However some things should. Remember, nothing is black and white, everything is in between. I guess it really depends what is being kept secret, and what should be shared. Not an easy question.
Thanks I'll do some work. I think conservation is an important topic.
If I found a surefire way to fix milk-spots without damaging the coin, I would find an investor and start a business.
LOL, I told him not to clean his coins.
BTW, he did a great job. IMO, better than the conservation service as it appears that they changed the color of his coin.
@Insider2
As to “outing” your secret, that is on them, not you. If they did not credit you personally, your magnanimous gesture was used to bolster someone else’s self-importance. In my book, that’s “Vampirism”.
As to the following scenario:
"You discover a new type of defect seen on every "extremely deceptive modern fake" do you alert your peers?"
As a collector:
Intentionally withholding the benefit of one’s knowledge is just plain passive aggression. Keeping specialize knowledge, obscure observation, and insightful opinions locked away in an “Ivory Tower” is hypocritical. Strange but true, a coin collector is an individual who saves examples of money for someone else they will never know! What is the point if you do not share why it was saved? Sure, there is a potential financial reward for keeping a valuable variety secret so more can be accumulated at a nominal cost but that is speculating, not collecting. Personally, I do not have the exposure, finances, or time to hunt down multiple specimens of an obscure variety. Finding just one is lucky, finding two is exasperating. I say and do –“Tell All”. Just to be clear, I can afford to be altruistic but if “putting food on the table” depended on my profit in the coin business, I am sure I would have a more conservative monetize opinion.
Proprietary information (business related, "company secrets") is one thing, but best practices or information to help collectors from being ripped off or doing something stupid is best shared far and wide.
From my position, as a collector/hobbyist, I support and would 'tell all I know' and have done so with things I have found. If I were in 'the business', then I may have a different perspective. I like to help people, just my nature. Cheers, RickO
You gave him the most valuable advice any novice collector could ever hear.
Follow your heart as far as telling or not .... if you have to ask the answer probably and more likely no
I thought the purpose of this forum was to share information with fellow coin enthusiasts.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think you are correct.
Now, consider this. What if I told you that the folks making state-of-the-art counterfeits that are passing most of the top professional dealers in the country could be identified by TWO characteristics. Additionally, we all know that the counterfeiters improve their products OFTEN based on things they read concerning authentication in the public domain.
Question: Would you want One, Two, or No information published revealing the ONLY two specific ways to ID the fakes at this time? I know my answer concerning sharing...
I have knowledge of a certain conservation technique but not sure how to “sell” it other than buying the problem coins at a discount and selling them without the problem. How do you approach a conservation service really? I mean without them saying they already knew that one wether they do or not?
Proprietary intellectual property is important to protect, I mean, you can’t call up the big conservation companies and pick their brain for info under the name of the “good of the hobby” anymore than you can call a Chinese cuisine restaurant and ask for their house special chicken recipe.
The real question is will that information help or hurt the hobby?
I guess it depends. Money talks. Some things you keep to yourself, but some information that would help others should be shared. (especially sharing ways to help other collectors from being burned by fakes, etc.)
My YouTube Channel
If you tell them w/o a patent, you are out of luck. I believe there was a fuss over something like this a decade ago.