Those would bring some good money as well...wouldn't they?
Not nearly as much as the real deal HR's.
LOL. Fortunately, when you hold one of these heavy, and beautiful fakes, most would never guess it was counterfeit. in the 1980's, I let a landlord hold mine (in a Capitol case) to cover a $500 security deposit on a rental house. He thought he had a 4K coin.
In the 1980's, I went to Princeton, NJ with my dealer boss to examine four gem HR's that were handed down in the family of a former Treasury Dept. or Mint official. I can't remember how many we bought. I don't consider NJ to be New England. There must be another group further north.
Back around 1975 I was working for Coin World in the U.S. Department. My friend Dave Alexander wrote for World Coins, and edited Numismatic Scrapbook. Anybody in Sidney who wanted a real newspaper took one of the Dayton papers.
One day one of the Dayton papers had a full-page ad from a traveling coin buying road show. They were going to be set up at a Holiday Inn for two days, and they listed some of their generic buying prices. IIRC they were paying $4 for common silver dollars, which was about half a buck under what decent coin shops were paying, Dave had an older couple originally from New York living in the townhouse next to his. They were there because their only daughter and their grandchildren were in Sidney. They were nice people and kept an eye on David's place when he was on the road and picked up his mail and newspapers.
One day the husband mentions to Dave that he had seen this ad and was wondering if the prices were fair. Dave says that you can usually do a little better at a coin shop. The guy asks David if he would take a look at his coins to see if there was anything good. Dave says that he has a friend (me) who knows U.S. and he will ask me if I would take a quick look at the stuff. I say sure and we set a time one evening. I go over to Dave's with a magnifying glass and a Redbook and we go next door. I figured we would be out in 20 minutes because I had a city council meeting I wanted to go to.
The guy sets up a card table and some folding chairs and then goes upstairs and brings back an old tattered shoe box full of old tattered envelopes. He picks through the envelopes and pulls one out and says "I see where they are paying $4 each for silver dollars" and he opens the envelope and hands me an EF 1799 dollar!
I showed him the listing in the Redbook and he was shocked. Dave went back to his apartment and got a box of 2x2 brown paper envelopes and we spent over two hours putting all the better coins into individual envelopes with dates, mint marks, grades and approximate retail values. The coins had been his father's and the guy knew literally nothing about them. It was a blast showing him what nice stuff he had. When we were done he asked what he owed us and we said nothing.
Afterwards when the table was clear his wife is serving us tea and a little cake. I guess the guy has decided that he can trust us, so he asks "Would you like to see the good stuff from the bank?" The stuff we had seen had been upstairs under the bed! I ask him what there was and he says "There's a $20 gold piece but I don't know the date because it's in Roman Numerals!"
We made an appointment for two nights later so he could go to the safety deposit box. Again with the card table and chairs. We ask to see the High Relief and it is frigging gorgeous! You can see a picture of it on the cover of the first two editions of the Coin World Almanac. The guy's father had gotten it from a bank in 1907.
Other baubles were an AU-Unc 1799 or 1801 $10 Turban Head, A $3 and a dozen or so common gold coins. There was a 1795 dollar that I called VF then that would probably slab EF today. (The EF 1799 might go AU today.) There was a RB Unc 1922 cent that I can't remember if it was a Weak Reverse No D or a Weak Reverse Weak D. There was half an original paper roll of BU 1928 quarters.
As before we catalogued everything and told them to put everything back into the safety deposit box. Some years later the husband passed away and the daughter contacted David for advise on what to do with the coins. He said that if they did not need the money to just keep them as family heirlooms. For all we know they are still in the family.
So this is why I am not shocked to hear of three High Reliefs popping up out of nowhere. There is still stuff out there!
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@DaveWcoins said:
...This collection is a bit of a time capsule. It was formed by a president of a small bank in New England, who was employed from the 1920's through the early 1960's. It has sat in a safety deposit box since that time.
He obviously was a bit of a collector. He must have had his tellers put aside any unusual coins and paper money they came across. Lots of really interesting stuff, but what might be the coolest (and certainly the items with the most monetary value) was this group of 3 high relief $20's...
This jives with what I read in Roger Burdette’s @RogerB tome, “Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles”. On page 63 he writes about the 1907 High Relief: “Most coins were released to Subtreasuries for commercial distribution, but never made it past department managers, clerks, and tellers. These Treasury officials scooped up almost every coin that was shipped out and then resold them for $25 to $35 each....The entire issue became a non-circulating collectible that captured the public fancy for a few years...”
This bank president had the foresight to capture these beauties, and then NOT let them go for a small profit.
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
RE: Is the assumption that if it’s not CACed, then it failed CAC?
No assumption, seller states it did NOT CAC! >> "... high spots are very prone to rub if they are stored in an environment which doesn’t protect them. This is clearly the reason that CAC didn’t approve this coin ..."
@Proofmorgan said:
I saw that today and thought it might be the one. Surprised it didn’t CAC.
Is the assumption that if it’s not CACed, then it failed CAC?
Heck NO! The vast majority of slabbed coins will never be sent to CAC!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@PQueue said:
RE: Is the assumption that if it’s not CACed, then it failed CAC?
No assumption, seller states it did NOT CAC! >> "... high spots are very prone to rub if they are stored in an environment which doesn’t protect them. This is clearly the reason that CAC didn’t approve this coin ..."
D’oh I didn’t read the description closely. 🤪I was too busy in awe at the look of the coin!
Besides the description, it is very rare to find a coin of that caliber to not be sent to CAC given the upside, especially in a nationwide retail advertisement. Doug would not leave thousands on the bone for the minimal fee CAC charges. The early gold I collect typically is worth about 20-30% more stickered. It would be unwise not to make the attempt.
There are always exceptions, but not typically with coins of that value.
Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
Neat thread. The toned high relief looks really nice to me.
I did not know copper stains could be removed easily, or that they might return. Nevertheless, I'm not afraid of dipping the right coin but I don' think I would ever dip gold. I don't like that dipped look on gold and, though I don't know first hand, that is exactly what gives gold the white look the at Bill refers to, correct?
Comments
Hopefully no omega's
Those would bring some good money as well...wouldn't they?
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Yep! I am in the process of trying to buy one currently..
Not nearly as much as the real deal HR's.
Amazing find @DaveWcoins! Just amazing.
Great discussion on the term "stacking" as well.
LOL. Fortunately, when you hold one of these heavy, and beautiful fakes, most would never guess it was counterfeit. in the 1980's, I let a landlord hold mine (in a Capitol case) to cover a $500 security deposit on a rental house. He thought he had a 4K coin.
@DaveWcoins did you get the results from these yet?
In the 1980's, I went to Princeton, NJ with my dealer boss to examine four gem HR's that were handed down in the family of a former Treasury Dept. or Mint official. I can't remember how many we bought.
I don't consider NJ to be New England. There must be another group further north.
Meant to tell this story when the thread was new.
Back around 1975 I was working for Coin World in the U.S. Department. My friend Dave Alexander wrote for World Coins, and edited Numismatic Scrapbook. Anybody in Sidney who wanted a real newspaper took one of the Dayton papers.
One day one of the Dayton papers had a full-page ad from a traveling coin buying road show. They were going to be set up at a Holiday Inn for two days, and they listed some of their generic buying prices. IIRC they were paying $4 for common silver dollars, which was about half a buck under what decent coin shops were paying, Dave had an older couple originally from New York living in the townhouse next to his. They were there because their only daughter and their grandchildren were in Sidney. They were nice people and kept an eye on David's place when he was on the road and picked up his mail and newspapers.
One day the husband mentions to Dave that he had seen this ad and was wondering if the prices were fair. Dave says that you can usually do a little better at a coin shop. The guy asks David if he would take a look at his coins to see if there was anything good. Dave says that he has a friend (me) who knows U.S. and he will ask me if I would take a quick look at the stuff. I say sure and we set a time one evening. I go over to Dave's with a magnifying glass and a Redbook and we go next door. I figured we would be out in 20 minutes because I had a city council meeting I wanted to go to.
The guy sets up a card table and some folding chairs and then goes upstairs and brings back an old tattered shoe box full of old tattered envelopes. He picks through the envelopes and pulls one out and says "I see where they are paying $4 each for silver dollars" and he opens the envelope and hands me an EF 1799 dollar!
I showed him the listing in the Redbook and he was shocked. Dave went back to his apartment and got a box of 2x2 brown paper envelopes and we spent over two hours putting all the better coins into individual envelopes with dates, mint marks, grades and approximate retail values. The coins had been his father's and the guy knew literally nothing about them. It was a blast showing him what nice stuff he had. When we were done he asked what he owed us and we said nothing.
Afterwards when the table was clear his wife is serving us tea and a little cake. I guess the guy has decided that he can trust us, so he asks "Would you like to see the good stuff from the bank?" The stuff we had seen had been upstairs under the bed! I ask him what there was and he says "There's a $20 gold piece but I don't know the date because it's in Roman Numerals!"
We made an appointment for two nights later so he could go to the safety deposit box. Again with the card table and chairs. We ask to see the High Relief and it is frigging gorgeous! You can see a picture of it on the cover of the first two editions of the Coin World Almanac. The guy's father had gotten it from a bank in 1907.
Other baubles were an AU-Unc 1799 or 1801 $10 Turban Head, A $3 and a dozen or so common gold coins. There was a 1795 dollar that I called VF then that would probably slab EF today. (The EF 1799 might go AU today.) There was a RB Unc 1922 cent that I can't remember if it was a Weak Reverse No D or a Weak Reverse Weak D. There was half an original paper roll of BU 1928 quarters.
As before we catalogued everything and told them to put everything back into the safety deposit box. Some years later the husband passed away and the daughter contacted David for advise on what to do with the coins. He said that if they did not need the money to just keep them as family heirlooms. For all we know they are still in the family.
So this is why I am not shocked to hear of three High Reliefs popping up out of nowhere. There is still stuff out there!
TD
MORE STORIES PLEASE! Anyone? Sorry, never mind.
@CaptHenway
Care to start a new discussion with this story and ask for more like it? Like when the '69-S DDO came up to DH's table out of the blue.
This jives with what I read in Roger Burdette’s @RogerB tome, “Saint-Gaudens Double Eagles”. On page 63 he writes about the 1907 High Relief: “Most coins were released to Subtreasuries for commercial distribution, but never made it past department managers, clerks, and tellers. These Treasury officials scooped up almost every coin that was shipped out and then resold them for $25 to $35 each....The entire issue became a non-circulating collectible that captured the public fancy for a few years...”
This bank president had the foresight to capture these beauties, and then NOT let them go for a small profit.
He who knows he has enough is rich.
This is one beautiful true view:
He who knows he has enough is rich.
I saw that posted today!! Gorgeous!
I saw that today and thought it might be the one. Surprised it didn’t CAC.
Is the assumption that if it’s not CACed, then it failed CAC?
He who knows he has enough is rich.
They stacked just fine. It just took 5 to 8 strikes to bring up the relief. The stacking issue was the red herring.
RE: Is the assumption that if it’s not CACed, then it failed CAC?
No assumption, seller states it did NOT CAC! >> "... high spots are very prone to rub if they are stored in an environment which doesn’t protect them. This is clearly the reason that CAC didn’t approve this coin ..."
Heck NO! The vast majority of slabbed coins will never be sent to CAC!
D’oh I didn’t read the description closely. 🤪I was too busy in awe at the look of the coin!
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Besides the description, it is very rare to find a coin of that caliber to not be sent to CAC given the upside, especially in a nationwide retail advertisement. Doug would not leave thousands on the bone for the minimal fee CAC charges. The early gold I collect typically is worth about 20-30% more stickered. It would be unwise not to make the attempt.
There are always exceptions, but not typically with coins of that value.
Neat thread. The toned high relief looks really nice to me.
I did not know copper stains could be removed easily, or that they might return. Nevertheless, I'm not afraid of dipping the right coin but I don' think I would ever dip gold. I don't like that dipped look on gold and, though I don't know first hand, that is exactly what gives gold the white look the at Bill refers to, correct?
Tom
Great thread
That is the best toning I've ever seen on a HR.
Your next assignment is to find nice big bag of 1921
My Saint Set
It’s on hold now. 😎
He who knows he has enough is rich.
Anyone here buy it?