WildIdea's favorite grade MS 65 BN and drawing giveaway. Winners, mach1ne, profliz, catbert
WildIdea
Posts: 1,877 ✭✭✭✭✭
I have been rolling around an idea for my first giveaway now for about a year. I was walking through downtown Boston last year explaining the concept to my wife and she said of coarse do it what are you waiting for, well, it's typical to let something like this get bumped for whatever reason. It was winning Type2s giveaway last month that really made me decide to just do it. His generosity here is contagious and I'd like to be seen in these ranks. Yeah, weeks ago, but it happened right around the 4th holiday and we took off to Ca for Dead tour. Yeah, I'm into the Dead and we get into going to live shows. Most things can wait for this but now I'm home and have had some time to think about this thread..........
I'm also rounding the horn on a 1000 posts here on the boards. I never thought that would happen. Took about 5 years, but like grains of sand I guess they can add up. I check in once a day on average and sometimes days go by before I'm moved to post but I will admit, I learn something here every time I check in. Thanks everybody, It hasn't hurt me at all to have been a member here.
I suppose I could trace it back to my single digit age when my parents made me walk in antique stores with my hands in my pockets. I have real trouble passing an antique store. I suppose it is because I know what it is I'm looking at mostly and can still be surprised with something I never knew or seen. I'm constantly thinking about coins and most things like it. By that I mean, Coins and bullion, antiques, mostly from the period and design of, everything! Rocks, fossils, artifacts, old motorcycles and automobiles, classic firearms, US history, world conflict history, mining history and the history of art and artisans. I would put Coins way up there, for some reason, the depth of the field has kept my interest from the time I was quite young to present. Other than the fact you can't kick start them and ride a coin, a coin is all of these things balled up in one. Old, artistic, tied to history and the fact that they don't fill your garage is the trade off!
Early on in my coin collecting, I was into this or that design but I would say that at some point, it was my Dad, that really had me take another look at Copper coins. I had dismissed them early on as not a serious area of collecting, especially not the lowly Lincoln cent that he had been collecting out of circulation as a child. I thought I needed to be into high grade Morgans and branch mint gold to be a serious collector. Although those are def serious endeavors, it took some heavy crow bar pressure to the eyelids to get me open to the idea of collecting copper, but once I did, a copper weenie I have stayed.
MS 65 BN
I have been in love with this grade now for easy 10 years. It is the target grade I'm always looking for and trying to make or the even more scarce and highly coveted sometimes mythical 66BN! Let me see if I can tell you why.
I know that most coins are coveted when they are most like how they left the mint. Human impairment of any kid and the loss of mint state Red are deductions of value. Lets just think for a minute that a coin has survived circulation or has been plucked and saved and most if not all of the details remain. This can be a neat enough though on it's own right there as we all know how the attrition of life and circumstances out of our control can wear things down to dust on this earth. You have a survivor! Now that all these statistics and laws of nature have been accommodated, then its chaos! Mint state copper is now free to change and react to unique environments and settle into any number of handsome looks and peacock colors. This is where I get turned on. Its almost an impossible scenario to reproduce and hard for me to concentrate on the concept. This is what keeps me interested. This is where the intersection of mint made and natures splendor meet. This was what I was seeing every time I saw a coin graded 65 BN. Some in 65 RB and well get to that but for now I will focus on the 65 BN.
I had questions! lots of them. What was it that the grading services looked for to award this grade? I had talked to several dealers and it seemed that none of them thought much of BN copper. I kept buying it. I bought a 65 BN Lincoln cent from a dealer at FUN, way excited, I mentioned it was a pop 1-2 at the time. He dismissed it as nothing to be proud of, it wasn't like it meant anything to him, not being RD. This thing was all there detail wise, had flashy mint luster, and a wash of color that would flash on and off then you twirled it in the light! I'm sure more will be made but I'm convinced that when they are, they will be different in looks and appearance, so it doesn't really matter. In fact, I hope more get made and dealers don't think much of them so I can afford them.
Over the years of submitting and buying coins graded 65 BN I have found that they almost have to be perfect in strike and void of technical issues like hairlines and spots AND have something else going for it like monster luster and a wash of color, or it will be a 4. At one time I though that the grading services had something against BN copper just like most of the dealers I spoke to. Like if it was BN it was automatically a grade deduction and a likely already a 64 before it was out the gate. If one looks at the pop reports, many Lincolns are single digits or teens in 65 BN and none in 66 with many in 66RB and RD. Why? Is BN a point deduction? I wouldn't think so, but I suspect they are grading value not so much the coin. A few here like Winged Liberty have even attempted to make spreadsheets on their topic, which I have enjoyed, but I have resolved to not care in the end. I love Mint state BN copper and will always be attracted to it.
I have found PCGS to be the toughest on this grade and they have honed my eye. I got quite a few QC body bags before I figured out what the looks were that the services like. I think that in order for them to award the 65 BN grade to anything, it is probably in the 66 grade technically and have some WOW factor to it. I want to know if I'm the only one here that feels this way. I will scour a show basically looking at all the tables for this grade first, just combing inventories looking for coins in this grade or better for my collection. Both US and foreign. It really takes something noteworthy in another series to pull me away from this focus at a show or an online search. Search MS 65 BN on eBay and you will see what I mean. Just great coins!!!!!
So I just want to celebrate my love of these BN coins with a giveaway.
Post a picture of any US or Foreign coin Graded MS 65 BN and I will enter your name in a hat each time.
Post a picture of a coin graded MS66 BN or higher and I will enter your name twice.
Comment on why you like coins graded 65 BN your entered once.
Comment on why you Don't like coins graded 65 BN your entered once.
When this thread loses steam I will have my daughter draw a name. The winner will receive an unopened mystery Dan Carr item. I have stopped even opening my Dan Carr items. I just get them and toss them in the safe. I think it will be fun to open them years from now, or sell them sealed in the future at some point. Anyway, I'm not sure what this one is. I mentioned to my wife that I thought it would be cool if the winner didn't open it either and started a giveaway of their own and it went on and on from giveaway to giveaway never getting opened and we just talked about coins the whole time. Think that can happen? I do.
Comments
Well, it looks like I get to go first! I have loved Lincoln cents since I was a young kid back in the Stone Age. And yes I too love Brown cents, especially MS65 Brown or higher! The coin above may not look special to some folks, as it is a common date, a 1945-D, but it is graded MS66BN, making it currently one of only 4 in that grade at PCGS with none finer. I just today got it in the mail from Jeremy of Monstercoinz. Although I have bought and sold many Red and Red and Brown Lincolns in my life, the Brown ones are both more affordable and harder to find than their Red counterparts, generally speaking. And copper is so reactive that yes, you get a far wider range of potential colors than you get on gold or silver coins.
Thanks @WildIdea and good luck!
Kind regards,
George
That is a really beautiful 1913-D Lincoln! ...and an older PCGS solid gasket holder as well!
Lots of people place too much emphasis on RED copper. While red copper is attractive, a Brown copper coin has a greater appeal to me, like an Everyman coin. It has been exposed to the elements to a degree and not placed into a vacuum of sorts. High grade MS Brown copper (that is actually brown, not just not enough red to classify as RB) that is attractive, can be very hard to find.
This is not my coin (I wish it was), but Angel Dees' has some of the nicest Brown Copper that I have seen;
1912 1C PCGS MS66BN (Angel Dee's Coins and Collectibles)
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
my 64s lust from afar ,at your 65......enjoyed your post,very well written......have fun with the giveaway Chumley
Ok, I will post my own highest grade Brown Copper;
1909 V.D.B. 1C PCGS MS65BN
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Nice write up! My favorite US coin happens to be a 65BN:
This was also a 65BN recent pickup:
And this recently was my first Lincoln cent purchase, it is 65RB however:
Well written. You are or should have been what we called in publications a word herder. I like 65 BN because I prefer older coins and it's tough finding an old copper in red. Thanks for the post and contest. Good thread.
Great post. I like MS65BN cents because most of them have great toning or color. They still have some mint luster left, but have seen some circulation time. Reds are too expensive, so browns are affordable and still beautiful.
Always buying nice toned coins! Searching for a low grade 1873 Arrows DDO Dime and 1842-O Small Date Quarter.
I like Browns because I don't have to worry about losing more money. And where else is something that is toned blue called brown. Names like Chocolate, Coffee, etc. And if there aren't any carbon spots, a miracle of nature.
I completely concur with your views on how difficult 65 brown copper is to come by. They seem to need attributes of 66 or better to make it in a 65bn holder. Alas, I have moved on from Lincolns after having a variety set and selling. No current 65bn in my inventory, but I did keep three nice 65rb Lincolns with strong beards and detail.
I am on board with you @WildIdea.
I LOVE toned copper too and you're right--the coin has to be a 66+/shot 7 to end up in a 5BN holder.
Give me a toned RB or BN over a RD anyday......although there are those "reds" that should be in RB holders, but that's a different story.
I don't have a picture but I sold not too long ago a 1960 small date that was NGC...can't recall if it was 65BN or 66BN.....but it was cool and quite a "condition rarity." I think it was a pop. 1 coin, but I'm too lazy to look it up.
Great idea, thanks for your post. I thought it was great.
The "they seem to need attributes of 66 or better to make 65BN" part was something I was wondering about recently. Why is that exactly? I'm pretty new to collecting copper in general, as coins turn brown does the mint luster diminish and cause it to be tougher to get gem + grades?
I like the BR more than red because I think thy are more attractive and I also feel they are more stable in the holder.
Steve
I absolutely love Brown copper, my whole registry is focused on it. I too like 65 or better, they are technically almost flawless, and the colors Brown copper come in are absolutely incredible. Hope you enjoy a few of my favorites.
I would guess that is a factor, diminished luster.
Love BN.
Nice post. Here is my favorite MS-65 BN Large Cent.
All except for two (that are RB) of my 2 Cent Pieces are brown, the proofs are the real toughies to find in brown.
All I need is the '67 proof and two down grades and I will have an all brown set.
Wow! Thanks for the responses! Look at all these cherries! Not a one the same. Too many for me to comment on them all. Thanks for posting folks, keep em coming! I’ll add another one myself.
I picked this one up years ago on eBay on a auction format when those were the norm. I was prepared to go the distance on this one and had to battle a bit. This date haunted me for a long time, I suppose for others as well. I like how this one mellowed out evenly on both sides. Nothing fancy color wise, just a handsome brown.
Great thread and am simpatico with your love of old copper in gem condition! Sadly, my U.S. coppers do not reach the lofty 65 level, but here are a few Conder tokens (for poor men who love gem copper) that fit the foreign bill.
First up is a NGC 65 BN that I adore:
And another NGC 65 BN with cool dentils (and gargantuan nose):
Here's another Conder that's is a NGC 66 BN that has amazing surfaces for something this old:
Lastly, I enjoy BN (and RB) copper since they bring a richness and realism to the coin. While I can appreciate red, it seems 100+ old versions do not inspire feelings that they are true although I know many are. Speaking of rich BN copper (but not a 65), here's a PCGS 64+ BN CAC that is so darn chocolatey that I felt it needed a home in my collection:
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
@Catbert, I was hoping Conders would start showing up! Nicely done!
I like brown coins. Most of the time they look better than red brown coins. Possible purchase, if I win powerball tonight.
Cool !!
Good luck all !!!
I love the OP's 1913-D. Great luster and color too. I got into toned Lincolns after seeing one @robec posted and then finding the Coyote Ugly Lincolns of @Coppercolor (now mostly owned by @Ronyahski). Here are my entries:
66BN:
65BN:
First off your post is superbly written. Your eloquence in stating why you are drawn to the 65 brown coins will undoubtedly win over a few collectors who are inclined to suggestion to your way of thinking, and possibly make for more competition for you in the future. I will post a droolworthy MS 66 Brown to get in the drawing for the chance at anything by Daniel Carr.
I like the 65 brown grade even more now that you have written about it, but mostly because they are more affordable and the variety of tonings which lend if you will - a real personality to the coin.
It says RB on the holder, but it is definitely brown/brown now.
I don't like coins graded BN simply because red looks better.
Great write up. Love the passion.
All my coppers are brown from circulation and I quit pulling them from my pocket about 1960. Might have a red or two and a RB or two but all raw in a blue Whitman.....It was a passion from long ago that I have not been able to rekindle.
bob
I LOVE LOVE LOVE higher end brown copper because they usually have a crisp strike, few flaws, lots of luster, and/or beautiful toning. To me, brown coins as opposed to red coins have more character because the luster and colorful toning makes each one unique. As a matter of fact, many of the coins in my Indian and Lincoln collections are MS65, MS66 and even MS67 BN coins. Here are the Indian cents:
The two Lincoln cents in my signature line are also MS65 BN.
The Penny Lady®
And here are my MS65 and higher brown Lincoln cents - my 1942 PCGS MS66 BN cent is the last coin I saved from the coins I inherited from my aunt that got me started in numismatics. It was raw and when I decided to get it graded I was very pleased to receive the MS66 grade (top pop).
By the way, I'm not posting these for the give away prize (as a matter of fact, if your daughter draws my name, you can give the prize to another forum member), I decided to post these because of my love for beautiful brown copper pennies - and it's been a very long time since I've shared these with you folks.
The Penny Lady®
Boom!
@ThePennyLady has been into these for as long as I've known her. She has helped me add to my collection a time or two and has always shared her passion with the tribe for as long as I can remember! Thanks for adding to the eye candy Charmy! I'm loving it.
My favorite grade for copper is 66BN, with 64 and 65 coming very close.
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
I hope more people get into these and more get made. I have to think that there are coins in albums and flips sitting around that could be graded but don't because there is no perceived value or upside in doing so. I guess I feel like I have enough of these, but I would be inclined to hold duplicates of this grade. Man, it would be hard to chose between two or three of the same date graded MS 65 BN!!
You guys are killing me! Like Christmas in July!
@robec, your 20 D is chocolate perfection. Looks like the color of a perfect large cent. Looks great on a Lincoln!
Thanks, that’s about how long I’ve been chasing these. I miss the solid gasket. I bought that one out of a Bowers and Merena auction around 2008-9. These were tough as ever to find then, I don’t think it’s gotten that much easier. Cost almost a house payment at the time. Crazy to think about it that way, but I don’t regret it! When it comes to these I lose my ability to to ward if financial mistakes.
I'm right there with you, WildIdea. I really love those 65BN gems. 66's are my favorite but I find myself searching for 65BN's before even looking for 66's. I think 65's are in that sweet spot, both in terms of availability and affordability (compared to 66's where the price can really jump) and for many of the dates/mm they are the highest attainable grade in BN. I also like the early Lincolns better, like your 13-D (sweet 13-D!), which tend to have more of an overall chocolate brown color, the chiseled beard and hair detail, and thick luster that give them the sought after look. I love your 15-S and 12-D, too, both are very nice!
Here's a few of my favorite 65's (just picked up the 13-S):
And a couple 66's
Great contest on a wonderful coin type/grade to collect. Much tougher than most realize!
Here is one I'll never let go. Brown? Sure, but Lavender would be more like it.
peacockcoins
I don't have a lot of copper (I collect mostly silver). However, I have always loved the look of higher grade BN Indian Cents but have never got around to collecting them. Eventually I'll get at least one or two for my Type Set, but for now this is my only MS65BN coin:
The PCGS certification number is 32554617 so you can verify the grade if need be.
Great post @WildIdea ....Although I am known for my preference for mint state, bright coins... I do like brown copper... I think it is because that is the commonly encountered state - except for when the new cents come out each year, brown is what we mostly see in change. And the old brown large cents are lovely. I know I have some, I will have to dig them out... Not sure if I have a 65BN though.. will look later. Great giveaway idea too... Cheers, RickO
66BN is the grade for me! I think at one point I had 16 or 17 66BN's. But 65BN comes in close and sometimes is just as nice as a 66BN. Here are some I own or have made:
MS65BN
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
@yKnot, your new 13 S has that strike that doesn’t come around that often. I hate to call it a sandy texture in the fields because it’s so much neater than that word and although similar, I hate to call it matte because it’s no use confusing those textures but it’s def an attractive texture. Not really a die erosion but more of an early die state? Thoughts anyone?
The 1914 in my set has a similar textur. No True View, just the best I could do with my home set up.
How great is it to wake up and check in on this thread and see a row of beauties. I had a feeling, this is why I didn’t want to kick this off while on a travel vacation, haha!
I’m glad I finally did though, I’ve already seen several posted I can’t remember seeing here before. Some old friends never get old either. Keep em coming! I’ll get help adding up the entries! Thanks people, your killing it!
MS64 BN
MS65BN for some reason I really liked the brown with blue tint
My Instagram
Great post.
I don't have a 65 to submit
This one is PCGS MS64 BN
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
I could see that 64 in a 5 holder, but who cares! I love the green! Blue on brown is great too, that’s just the right amount in my book. Thanks for sharing.
I’ve found the 24 P to be one of the harder Lincolns to find in Gem BN. I think it’s because it’s value isn’t quite enough to submit and the online searches get watered down with the famous 24 D and also the S.
There is room in this thread for 4s. A lot of them could be 5s on any given day and some 5s a 6.
Thanks for sharing yours!
I sadly don’t own any however I love the grade because it is just amazing that something that is so old stayed in a collecters hands so long and had very little to no circulation.
Being new to coin collecting I thought that one cent graded RD must be the ultimate goal of mine. That’s what everyone talks about and they cost the most! Being colorblind, I have to say, this thread has opened my eyes. I’m really liking the BN and some RB coins. I think the tones like blue and purple I’ve seen in a few are much easier for me to see than the RD coins. Even the predominantly BN ones are looking every nice.
Thanks for helping more learn more and opening my eyes so to speak!
Collector of randomness. Photographer at PCGS. Lover of Harry Potter.
Just wanted to say Congrats on your 1000th post and glad to see that you have been around the past 5 yrs and hope you continue to be around for a very long time to come. Also wanted to say, if we lived close to each other, we could have been great friends as we are into the same things and I can walk into just about any store, especially antique stores and just look for hours and not have to purchase a thing, just happy looking at everything but would be really happy with a great buy. Anyhow, just wanted to say Congrats and thank you for the giveaway, whoever wins it will be happy to have it. If I make it to the sdb sometime before the giveaway is over, I'll get a picture or two up of coins and try to win it myself.