Where are the Matte Proof Hawaiian Commems? A census.
DMWJR
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I pose this thread as a reference point for a census, knowing this thread is going to appeal to a very small crowd. I plan on reorganizing the list into a 1-50 format after a little more research.
In Swiatek's 1993 book, he identifies the names of the 50 individuals who received a Matte Proof Hawaiian Commemorative (verified by others). Swiatek also states which ones he knew were in private collections at the time. Coinfacts suggests that all 50 survive. How many of them do you think are "lost," and how many still have a credible pedigree back to their original recipient?
As of 6/7/18:
PCGS census 9
NGC census 27
Eleven of the Fifty went to organizations and museums: '#11,12,14,16,17,20,22,27,38,45,47
In looking at the book and looking through auction records, another nine attributable exist, and in private hands:
Cartwright (#2) (Owned by Medcalf?)
Iaukea (#6) (Swiatek's own coin)
KuyKendall (#7) (private collection)
Juliette Faser (#8) (seen at auction)
Coolidge (#21) (seen at auction)
Conner (#26) (private collection)
L. Judd (#40) (seen at auction)
Caum (#48) (real one at auction and a controversial John Dean Coin Co specimen)
Houston (#50) (private collection)
There were another dozen sold where pedigree was not verifiable, but they do exist.
*One sold at the B&M 09/08, lot 619 for $86k, but I don't have access to see which one)
*One sold at the B&M 08/06, lot 1178 for $64.4k, but I don't have access to see which one)
*One PCGS PR64 from the ANR St. John sale may be an acid treated MS, and not PR
That's 32 known, assuming no duplication above. That leaves 18 out there "to be discovered."
Comments
It’s remarkable how few have come to market in the past decade.
Good luck with the census!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Breen said somewhere that the ANA Museum specimen was not there when he looked. This comment concerned me while I was working for the ANA, so I asked about it. The Curator at the time promptly produced it. Either Breen was lying or mistaken, or the Curator at the time he asked kept it hidden from him.
The piece was covered with old lacquer and rather unsightly. With the Curator's permission I removed the lacquer from it and returned it to the Museum.
I do not know if all 50 pieces were lacquered before being distributed, or only the one. Any comments by people who have seen others?
TD
That would be zero in the last decade with the major auction houses. I suspect the last round came out because of the colossal battle of registry sets and the moon money being paid.
That is a great question. I placed a PCGS PR64 in a major set back in 2004. Also in the set-GWS Proof and the Missouri Proof. We built a Pattern Commen set as far as we could. Sadly, this set won't come out in our lifetime.
I would LOVE to buy a PCGS CAC 64-66 piece.
I've seen the photos of the Missouri and the Grant with star. I assume these are the two you are referring to, and they are the only ones on Coinfacts. What is the story behind these mystery pieces? I haven't a clue, other than speculation that Sinnock did them for himself. I think @RogerB has said on the boards that there are none (maybe we were talking about the Columbians?). Anyway, the Hawaiian's are well documented, obviously
I’ve probably seen at least 10 of them over the years and I don’t recall any of them being lacquered.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Hawaiian proofs seemed to come up regularly for as far back as I remember, back into the 70’s. Then they mysteriously dried up about ten years ago. Could be that someone is hoarding them, or just one of those random things.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I’ve seen one in Albanese rare coins inventory back in early of 2000. I think it was in 64 or 65 NGC holder
A. There is no such critter as a "matte proof" commemorative half dollar.
B. John Sinnock routinely made approval samples and engineering test pieces on one of the medal presses. These were ordinary parts of verifying that design and dies met all technical specifications prior to regular production on a toggle press. Most/all of these were sandblasted to emphasize the design over surface brightness. This was ordinary and commonplace for medallic work.
C. Sinnock purchased examples for his personal reference and use much as other artists kept samples of their medals and bas reliefs. Several other employees also bought samples, but there is no reliable inventory known. (Maybe one will turn up as more mint documents are digitized.)
D. Sandblast proof commemorative halves are very easy to fake, just as were/are 1921 Peace dollar proofs authenticated by Wally Breen and fans. Most that I've seen are nothing more than regular pieces that were sandblasted in home workshops. I recall seeing Maryland "proof" that looked as if someone had been trying to clean off graffiti with rough sand.....an awful coin, yet several "dealers" swore it was a "matte proof."
Ooops -- did not realize this was a "census" question. My comments aren't really germane.
A legitimate sandblast proof commemorative half dollars MUST have the striking characteristics of a medal press product, plus flawless surfaces under the sandblasting, plus several other things best left to professional authenticators. These also exist on Saint-Gaudens/Pratt gold and Peace dollars.
All I can say is the there is ZERO question the Missouri is a proof. if you saw it in hand you would agree. It looks more sandblast then Matte. It is a deeper pewter color.
In fact I might see if I can display the proofs early net year.
I think it is germane, seeing as how PCGS certifies them and has them listed in the commemorative proof section. The Hawaiian's are well documented. The Colombians - many have been certified by both services, but I haven't seen any documentation that it was intentional.
When I update about the Hawaiians, I will updated the first post so everything will stay there and just bump the thread.
Here is the Grant with star:
and the Vancouver:
Please make sure to post about it here if you do. I would love to see a display of them. This is one of the few areas in the classic commemorative series that interest me.
Cool post
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
The matte proof California is struck like a medal. Zero question proof.
https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/1068/Matte-Proof-1925-S-California-Half-Dollar/
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Really interesting, thank you all for sharing your insights and knowledge !!!
If there's 50, shouldn't it be 18 out there instead of 28 ? Did I miss something?
I wonder if it will be possible to identify where all 50 are located. Years ago, I would also attend antique shows -which usually also had some coin tables. I would frequently hear people asking if table holders 'had any proof Hawaiian coins'.... I heard that so often it motivated me to do some research. That was when I first learned about them.... By the way, the table holders always replied in the negative. This was back in the mid nineties, so there were people looking for them then. Cheers, RickO
oops Fixed the fat thumb typo. 18 it is.
I bought the Edward L Caum #48 specimen at the Feb 2000 LB Auction. Later sold it. Nice coin.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
OK, I suppose I am preaching to the choir here, but for those not familiar with the history of this 1928 commemorative coin, it is notable that Juliette Fraser, one of those individuals listed by the OP as receiving one of the 50 proofs was the artist responsible for the coin's design. Interestingly she acknowledges that she used the King Kamehameha statute for inspiration for her generic Hawaiian Chiefton, but a careful comparison suggests a close copy right down to the hand placement and positioning of the spear. Here is my photo of the King's statue for comparison:
... and for comparison (my replica proof):
In addition, here is my photo of another work of art she was responsible for a decade later. It can be seen today displayed in the lobby of the main (Hamilton) Library at the University of Hawaii Manoa Campus on Oahu.
Juliette May Fraser coin:
Thanks!! Anyone have a photo of the Matte Proof presentation box?
Here's what the regular issues came in
I have seen two Hawaiian's - one piece through some glass. It was on a stand in a small vertical display case in an office at the Secret Service. There were other items on shelves in the case. I do not know if the piece was authentic or if it was an altered coin that was confiscated.
Here is what I do know. Over the years, I've examined almost three dozen coins that were altered in different ways to resemble Matte Proofs [I forgot, these Proofs really don't exist). They are usually very easy to detect, however, I'll guarantee that there are still altered coins thought to be Proofs in collections. I don't choose to back up the reasons for this so consider it just another speculation here.
They can definitely be deceptive. I got caught on one 30+ years ago.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The surface of the true proofs all look the same and are easy to identify. Need to see a few.
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
The surfaces of altered coins have many different "looks." Their appearance depends on the skill of the technician and the method used to make the alteration. In my experience, most look just as they should or the would never have been sent in to be authenticated.
Need to see a few.
Nic, did you buy it with the letter from the commission, and did it come with a box?
Thanks for the photos of the box!
Does anyone recall this "fantasy" set, and the story behind it? Who created it?