Any sale agreement could make it an explicit condition that the sticker must be able to be distinguished from the current sticker.
As a potential buyer, that would be a deal killer for me.
As the potential buyer, I should insist on retiring the green bean as my standards would be more strict. I should also make the color of my sticker GOLD with no need for a "higher" color.
Then you are wasting your money. There is no value in saddling yourself with the inferior CAC brand. The only value in buying CAC is because you think the brand has value. If your standards are higher, you are saddling yourself with a lower standard brand.
It would be equivalent to PCGS buying ANACS and then only using PCGS slabs. Why would they need ANACS? For warehouse space? It would effectively value the brand at zero.
I don't know what you are talking about. My "new" company would have NOTHING to do with CAC whether it was still in business or not. If in the end, I got a market share and turned a profit - nothing was wasted. If in the end, CAC and the TPGS's were forced to "up-their-game," again nothing wasted. Folks like George Soros enjoy recking havoc with their riches - win or lose I don't think he considers it a waste.
As the potential buyer, I should insist on retiring the green bean as my standards would be more strict. I should also make the color of my sticker GOLD with no need for a "higher" color.
You referred to yourself as a "potential buyer". If you are forming a new company, that makes sense. I'm just saying that it would make no sense to buy CAC to retire the CAC stickers.
As the potential buyer, I should insist on retiring the green bean as my standards would be more strict. I should also make the color of my sticker GOLD with no need for a "higher" color.
You referred to yourself as a "potential buyer". If you are forming a new company, that makes sense. I'm just saying that it would make no sense to buy CAC to retire the CAC stickers.
If JA leaves, I read in this discussion that the sticker will be changed. Did you read that?
Now to the bigger point I've been making. IMO, any long-time, nationally known person or entity could start a sticker service and make it successful. Pay higher offers to buy the coins, give faster turnaround, and either get really strict or a tiny bit looser as long as the backing was there. Dealers want to make money and collectors want to be safe. Look at the nonsense going on with slabbed common stamps. Turning a 25c piece of colored paper into a $150 treasure with only 10 graded is the way to turn a profit.
As the potential buyer, I should insist on retiring the green bean as my standards would be more strict. I should also make the color of my sticker GOLD with no need for a "higher" color.
You referred to yourself as a "potential buyer". If you are forming a new company, that makes sense. I'm just saying that it would make no sense to buy CAC to retire the CAC stickers.
If JA leaves, I read in this discussion that the sticker will be changed. Did you read that?
Now to the bigger point I've been making. IMO, any long-time, nationally known person or entity could start a sticker service and make it successful. Pay higher offers to buy the coins, give faster turnaround, and either get really strict or a tiny bit looser as long as the backing was there. Dealers want to make money and collectors want to be safe. Look at the nonsense going on with slabbed common stamps. Turning a 25c piece of colored paper into a $150 treasure with only 10 graded is the way to turn a profit.
Yes, I read it. And I believe that retiring the sticker impairs the value of the company. Hence my earlier posts.
I agree with you about a person with significant bona fides being able to start a competing service.
I just don't think there is any point in buying CAC to go a different direction or use different stickers. That was the only point I was making. The brand has no value divorced form JA. Using new stickers would essentially separate you from the CAC legacy. So, why buy it? You simply wouldn't. As you've pointed out, you could simply start stickering on your own.
Since the cac sticker is so accepted now by PCGS and NGC, they could incorporate previously cac approved coins into their label and on their True View link, so that there is at least the option to not have the green sticker on the coin's holder.
@jmlanzaf said: "es, I read it. And I believe that retiring the sticker impairs the value of the company. Hence my earlier posts....I just don't think there is any point in buying CAC to go a different direction or use different stickers. That was the only point I was making. The brand has no value divorced form JA. Using new stickers would essentially separate you from the CAC legacy. So, why buy it? You simply wouldn't. As you've pointed out, you could simply start stickering on your own."
My mind has come around and I've changed it. I think that if JA were to leave the company it would suffer UNLESS it was either rolled into a fifth major TPGS or combined with one of the top two while he was a principle. Then, once established he could retire. The first thing they should do is get their butts out of NJ and come to FL. INSTANT bottom line profit and salary increases for everyone.
My mind has come around and I've changed it. I think that if JA were to leave the company it would suffer UNLESS it was either rolled into a fifth major TPGS or combined with one of the top two while he was a principle. Then, once established he could retire. The first thing they should do is get their butts out of NJ and come to FL. INSTANT bottom line profit and salary increases for everyone.
Look at us, playing nice and agreeing. Happy 4th of July!
My mind has come around and I've changed it. I think that if JA were to leave the company it would suffer UNLESS it was either rolled into a fifth major TPGS or combined with one of the top two while he was a principle. Then, once established he could retire. The first thing they should do is get their butts out of NJ and come to FL. INSTANT bottom line profit and salary increases for everyone.
Look at us, playing nice and agreeing. Happy 4th of July!
I don't ever play nice! Ther are rules around here. I also have an open mind and there have been some good points made. Happy 4th! This is still live the best country on earth at this time.
In the post JA period (whenever that may be), I have no doubt that coins that are CAC and condition census will do very well. I am more intrigued about coins (mostly gold) which have larger populations but a very low sticker rate. Take the 1914 Indian Quarter Eagle. In PCGS 65 there is a population of 62 with one 65+ (2 are 66 and 1 is 67). NGC has 46 graded 65. The combined population is 108 and just 8 are stickered at 65 (if you count a 65+ that is stickered than 9).
A PCGS 65 CAC 1914 quarter eagle sells for almost twice the price of a 1914 PCGS 65 non stickered coin. The last 4 auction prices for PCGS 65 NON CAC were between $11,750 and 18,800 with $13,000 appearing to be the average price. The last PCGS 65 cac SALE WAS 2016 AND WENT FOR $21,150. CAC price guides put the price for a 1914 65 CAC between 20,000 -25,000.
To me this is the real question where coins like this will be in the future. Talking about a premium that is almost double at the same grade. My hunch is with the very strict standards set by CAC (as shown by a sticker rate of about 8%), the emphasis on quality, the rarity of the sticker in a post JA period---the premium will actually increase. I will be the first to admit that is pure speculation but those are my thoughts.
Comments
I don't know what you are talking about. My "new" company would have NOTHING to do with CAC whether it was still in business or not. If in the end, I got a market share and turned a profit - nothing was wasted. If in the end, CAC and the TPGS's were forced to "up-their-game," again nothing wasted. Folks like George Soros enjoy recking havoc with their riches - win or lose I don't think he considers it a waste.
You referred to yourself as a "potential buyer". If you are forming a new company, that makes sense. I'm just saying that it would make no sense to buy CAC to retire the CAC stickers.
If JA leaves, I read in this discussion that the sticker will be changed. Did you read that?
Now to the bigger point I've been making. IMO, any long-time, nationally known person or entity could start a sticker service and make it successful. Pay higher offers to buy the coins, give faster turnaround, and either get really strict or a tiny bit looser as long as the backing was there. Dealers want to make money and collectors want to be safe. Look at the nonsense going on with slabbed common stamps. Turning a 25c piece of colored paper into a $150 treasure with only 10 graded is the way to turn a profit.
Yes, I read it. And I believe that retiring the sticker impairs the value of the company. Hence my earlier posts.
I agree with you about a person with significant bona fides being able to start a competing service.
I just don't think there is any point in buying CAC to go a different direction or use different stickers. That was the only point I was making. The brand has no value divorced form JA. Using new stickers would essentially separate you from the CAC legacy. So, why buy it? You simply wouldn't. As you've pointed out, you could simply start stickering on your own.
Since the cac sticker is so accepted now by PCGS and NGC, they could incorporate previously cac approved coins into their label and on their True View link, so that there is at least the option to not have the green sticker on the coin's holder.
@jmlanzaf said: "es, I read it. And I believe that retiring the sticker impairs the value of the company. Hence my earlier posts....I just don't think there is any point in buying CAC to go a different direction or use different stickers. That was the only point I was making. The brand has no value divorced form JA. Using new stickers would essentially separate you from the CAC legacy. So, why buy it? You simply wouldn't. As you've pointed out, you could simply start stickering on your own."
My mind has come around and I've changed it. I think that if JA were to leave the company it would suffer UNLESS it was either rolled into a fifth major TPGS or combined with one of the top two while he was a principle. Then, once established he could retire. The first thing they should do is get their butts out of NJ and come to FL. INSTANT bottom line profit and salary increases for everyone.
Look at us, playing nice and agreeing. Happy 4th of July!
If they did that, I'd hope they'd let us pay a little more, send in our CACs and get a newer sticker.
I don't ever play nice! Ther are rules around here. I also have an open mind and there have been some good points made. Happy 4th! This is still live the best country on earth at this time.
In the post JA period (whenever that may be), I have no doubt that coins that are CAC and condition census will do very well. I am more intrigued about coins (mostly gold) which have larger populations but a very low sticker rate. Take the 1914 Indian Quarter Eagle. In PCGS 65 there is a population of 62 with one 65+ (2 are 66 and 1 is 67). NGC has 46 graded 65. The combined population is 108 and just 8 are stickered at 65 (if you count a 65+ that is stickered than 9).
A PCGS 65 CAC 1914 quarter eagle sells for almost twice the price of a 1914 PCGS 65 non stickered coin. The last 4 auction prices for PCGS 65 NON CAC were between $11,750 and 18,800 with $13,000 appearing to be the average price. The last PCGS 65 cac SALE WAS 2016 AND WENT FOR $21,150. CAC price guides put the price for a 1914 65 CAC between 20,000 -25,000.
To me this is the real question where coins like this will be in the future. Talking about a premium that is almost double at the same grade. My hunch is with the very strict standards set by CAC (as shown by a sticker rate of about 8%), the emphasis on quality, the rarity of the sticker in a post JA period---the premium will actually increase. I will be the first to admit that is pure speculation but those are my thoughts.