3 US silver dollars found in UK
brandonhal
Posts: 2 ✭
I'm new to the forum, and wanted your experts' opinion on 3 coins I found here in England. I purchased these from a reputable antiques auction house, but hope to confirm their authenticity, or return them if any are questionable.
They include an 1893-P Morgan Silver Dollar, an 1899-P Morgan Silver Dollar, and an 1875-P Trade Dollar. I have not found any cites for these particular years and mints being counterfeited, and each coin is the proper size and weight (27 grams), non-magnetic, appears to have proper wear, and has the high-pitched "ping" of a silver coin.
Thank you in advance!
1
Comments
Don't know about authenticity, but based on what you stated they passed the first few hurdles.
I would be more concerned about cleaning. They look like they might have been cleaned at some point.
They are questionable, but it could be the photo.
Trade dollars are frequently counterfeited. Morgan $s of all years are counterfeited. The 1893 is more likely to be counterfeited than the 99. There are many millions of counterfeit dollars all over the orient. Some obvious fakes, others less so.
Very hard to authenticate from the photos. The 1893 looks the most suspect with the Trade dollar second. They all appear to have been cleaned, at the very least.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Great points. I’d return them based on that & the HA 1893:
Your 1893:
That date on the Trade $ is very questionable
BHNC #203
Trade and 1899 are for sure fake. Can't quite tell on the '93, pics are not to good.
bob
The 1875 "Trade dollar" is highly questionable. Both date and Liberty's right hand seem strange in the photo. Better to get a refund on that one and use the money to locate a clearly authentic example.
The other two might be OK, but they are circulated and probably cleaned or scrubbed.
all three are fake
Danger,danger Will Robinson!
How about some feedback on why they are fakes?
All three have an odd look and are probably fakes. The photos aren't good enough to be certain. All three have been cleaned.
All three coins are counterfeit.
The 1875 trade dollar is certainly fake. The date is the obviously wrong, among other things.
Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far! I'm American but we don't often see US coins for sale here in England. Are you able to clarify some of the specific discrepancies? I would like to learn, and I'm sure the antiques auction house would want to know what to look for if future counterfeits are brought in. Much appreciated again.
Look at the date on the trade dollar.
The overall "look" of the coin screams fake.
Lettering and date on Morgans are mushy and amateurish,
Compare the date in the photo above on the 1893 provided by @KollectorKing .
If that doesn't jump out at you, I don't think you should be spending more than $10 on a raw coin.
Hey @brandonhal
The number of collectors who've come to this forum having bought non genuine, mis-graded, doctored, improperly cleaned or 'bombed by seagulls' coins would amaze you.
Stick around
"Inspiration exists, but it has to find you working" Pablo Picasso
Just because a coin is fake doesn't mean it isn't silver. If you bought them at around silver melt value you are likely ok. If you bought them as collectibles and paid a lot for that you may want to return them. You should only purchase collectible coins in slabs, unless you are an expert.
I am not sure if this is true. Silver coins that trade as bullion do so based on the fact that the fineness is guaranteed by being from a recognized issuer. Fake coins, even when made of silver, are of unknown purity and might need to be assayed to be sold as bullion.
Without a doubt, all three are fake. EOS.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
All look fake to me, too.
My YouTube Channel
Chinese, Russian or North Korean, certainly not 1800's US coins. Hope you didn't pay too much.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
All bad. Return ASAP, do not pass "Go", do not collect $200.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Yikes !!!
It's generally considered bad practice to critique counterfeits, lest we give the counterfeiters ideas about what to do differently.
Speaking broadly... real mint-struck coins have a certain "look" to them. These don't. There are many factors to the "look". Color plays a role, also surface appearance (luster, etc), and especially the design itself, down to tiny fractions of millimeters. These pieces fail in all regards.
If you have access to a decent scale, you'll probably find that the weights are wrong also. Checking the weight is a pretty safe, non-controversial thing that you can suggest to a UK auction house. Obviously it's possible for a counterfeit to have the correct weight, and it's possible for a legitimate mint product to have an unexpected weight. Still, odds are good that if the weight is wrong, the coin is wrong too.
All 3 are bad.
If you read the OP, the coins are ALL of proper weight and size.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
At least the tabletop isn't over varnished and pitted like so many others I've seen around here lately.
@brandonhal ....Welcome aboard....I agree the coins appear to be counterfeit.... I suggest you get either the Redbook or some similar coin books (perhaps specific to Morgans and Trade Dollars) and compare the photographs to your coins. As noted above, the date on the Trade dollar jumps out... there are other details that will become more obvious when you review the coins in comparison to the photographs... you might also take a copy of this thread with you when you return the coins. Good luck, Cheers, RickO
I can't tell from the pics if the coins are real or not, the images are too blurry and and slightly overexposed. They do look cleaned however. The 1893 does look odd in the pictures the surfaces don't look good and the date seems wrong as well.
One of the best ways to recognize a fake** is to compare it **, in hand, with a known authentic coin.
If you do not have another coin, pull up heritage images and use those to compare.
I recommend to go to a dealer and explain your situation and ask if he would help you out trying to establish the facts.
by showing you authentic coins.
Surprisingly , only one of you suggested to check the weight.
and nobody suggested to do a chemical purity test.
and finally, it is only logical that one would say: most likely a fake, (instead of saying : have them certified) if one is not sure, or probably has never seen or recognized a fake.
for coins to be slabbed does not provide any serious guarantee, unless it is slabbed by one of the reputable TPG's.
and...even our hosts products have been forged, complete with coin inside.
Sorry if I have my post all mixed up, but I think you all get the idea.
That's not really true these days. Many coin places and pawn operations have XRF guns and will buy all kinds of scrap just based on the gun.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
We didn't suggest checking the weight because, if you read the OP, he had already checked the weight and it was good.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
0 for 3, talk about a bad shopping experience