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AI coin attribution
MikeInFL
Posts: 10,188 ✭✭✭✭
Earlier this evening, Ikeigwin posted this comparison image to confirm the attribution of a large cent:
His post got me thinking. Could an AI be given, for instance, Heritage Auction archive pictures and attributions, and a coin photo, and attribute it*?
I know that Google and others have done image recognition: https://cloud.google.com/vision/ IBM also has a commercially available API engine to do this yourself: https://ibm.com/watson/developercloud/visual-recognition/api/v3/curl.html?curl
If I were a TPG, I might investigate the capabilities in this space.
What are your thoughts on this topic?
Just curious...>Mike
- = patent pending
Collector of Large Cents, US Type, and modern pocket change.
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It wasn't my best effort. To do it right the images must be the exactly the same size and precisely oriented/rotated. There's a bit of trial and error.
But when I need convincing I find the job worthwhile.
To OP's question, I don't see why this couldn't be done efficiently with software, decent images and a good database. Someday it might be routine.
It could help confirm important rarities, weed out counterfeits, find new die marriages. But it might also spoil some of the hobby's fun, like cherry picking, or learning the nuances of a series. Would collectors be better off or dumber?
Lance.
Yes, it can be done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCV
The next questions are:
I am planning to try it (for fun) on liberty seated half dimes, using the high-res photos on PCGS CoinFacts and my own attributions of a set of reference photos.
The first task, as Lance described, is to automate the rotation and scaling.
This can be less or more challenging, depending on how many devices are on the hub.
PCGS already did a form of this with their Secure Plus service, where they make a detailed scan of the coin and then can detect (with high probability) if the coin is submitted at a later time for the Secure Plus service.
https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-announces-pcgs-secure-plustrade-service-for-increased-consumer-protection
Cool !!!
@Ikeigwin
Wouldn't scammers benefit from this technology also?
Eventually, with AI and other technological advances, we will have computer grading... and it will be accurate and repeatable. It will eliminate 'gradeflation'.... It will be a goldmine for the first TPG that introduces the process - once the shock of true standards is absorbed by the hobby... If you think CAC impacted the hobby.. well, as the old saying goes..."You ain't seen nuttin' yet buddy."..... Cheers, RickO
Personally, I look forward to this day. I'm sure some people in the business make their money off of "gradeflation" but as a collector, I would welcome a completely objective grading process. Eliminating "good" and "bad" grades off of submissions and/or purchases in the market. Send your coins in and what you get is what you have. No questions.
There is a service primarily for ancient coins which uses AI based image recognition to identify lost pedigrees: Ex-Numis . They've scanned thousands of old auction catalogs so far and I've had some fantastic results, although it definitely is far from perfect.
I've indicated that it would be even more useful as an attribution tool: the tedious parts of cataloging could be nearly entirely automated. Apparently they're looking into it but haven't figured it out yet but it would certainly be a win for all, and it seems like it's well within the reach of today's technology.
Here's a match they found from a coin of mine, a sestertius depicting the Colosseum. I bought it unpedigreed and they found where it was sold in 1910. Pedigree is extremely important with ancient coins, making this quite a win:
About 15 years ago they introduced a camera system that could look at the flow of crushed stone aggregate flowing off of a conveyor and determine the gradation [particle size distribution] of the material. Most anything is possible today [in the near future] if there is enough interest in getting it done. JMO
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Grading is subjective, and far harder to do from images.
Attribution is much more objective, and far easier to do from images.
I agree with your post above, Ricko, and appreciate your sharing, but I was after something quite different when I started this thread last night.
Take care...Mike
Attribution should be fairly easy, the hard part will be uploading the images. As far as computer grading - phooey! However, that could also be "imitated" right now. Image every coin that comes in for grading. If it ever comes in again - it is detected and graded as it was before.
What I want to see is a site where I can upload an image of anything, from any era, and any country and have it ID'ed in seconds. It would be fun to find what's in those junk hoards of ancient coins.
@MikeInFL ....Yep... Sorry Mike... as often happens in threads, we got off track.... Cheers, RickO
FYI, @Insider2, we don't need to "upload" the images, per se. A good AI could be furnished with a userid at Heritage and download them itself -- the technology is already available and workable in this regard -- something similar was done by IBM when Watson competed on Jeopardy...it "ingested" all of Wikipedia (along with a great deal more content), which formed its basis of knowledge. Presumably, something similar could be done with Heritage's (or anyone else's) image and attribution data.
Cool, hook the thing up to every auction!
That is supposedly what the "Secure" or "Gold" service supposedly does, no? I wonder if PCGS currently takes pics of all coins submitted to them before they grade for their database or whatever.
https://www.pcgs.com/goldshield