They're all safe, once out of the hands of the people.
Meanwhile, I believe those who smeared Israel Switt's name through this ordeal, do owe his dependents an apology AND the value of 10 ONE OUNCE gold coins, not to mention restitution for their costs in dealing with our judicial system via the courts. (that's just me, though) Izzy should be exonerated, too. Maybe even canonized.
I wouldn't walk up to anyone here at a show and just turn the coin over to be sold.
The two authenticators will verify it outside of US jurisdiction and the rest is easy and obvious. Pay for their tickets, champagne and confidentiality and all proofs and bona fides can be established easily. With an established local banker/lawyer combo with experience in dealing with the first-world problems of second-tier oligarchs.
When they make the movie, consider that @FredWeinberg looks great in a trench coat and keeps his fingernails clean for close-ups If you need a government lawyer, Giuliani will do it for free (if he can still give it away )_
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I wouldn't walk up to anyone here at a show and just turn the coin over to be sold.
The two authenticators will verify it outside of US jurisdiction and the rest is easy and obvious. Pay for their tickets, champagne and confidentiality and all proofs and bona fides can be established easily. With an established local banker/lawyer combo with experience in dealing with the first-world problems of second-tier oligarchs.
When they make the movie, consider that @FredWeinberg looks great in a trench coat and keeps his fingernails clean for close-ups If you need a government lawyer, Giuliani will do it for free (if he can still give it away )_
Would access to known remaining coins like those in the Smithsonian be needed for authentication?
The right authenticators would know easily. The ten Langbords have been on display, the fabric is identical to the 32's, and the die effects are easily analyzed. Does NGC have images up? FOI (Freedom of Information) Act?
My remark on @FredWeinberg's fingernails is because I visualize the defining moment of authenticating the "missing" 1913 "V" was him bending over under the light with the coin in-hand looking at the edge. It wouldn't be the first time he was on the cover of Rolling Stone .
He might but would not say "and it matches three others I've inspected under similar circumstances".
Let's remember that's a scene from several movies and TV shows mentioning coins in several excellent threads elsewhere
Quite a few others who post here would have the chops to do it; I'm not among them but the "real deals" are easy to locate.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
I actually held them, raw, on
the edge, to match what I
called the 'ballistic' lines on
the plain edge of the Nickels.
They were struck at the same
time, in the same collar.
Colonel, thanks for the nice
words and reference.
I could not say that the coin shown
around 1976-77 was the same
Fenton coin 25 years later. (1933 $20)
Retired Collector & Dealer in Major Mint Error Coins & Currency since the 1960's.Co-Author of Whitman's "100 Greatest U.S. Mint Error Coins", and the Error Coin Encyclopedia, Vols., III & IV. Retired Authenticator for Major Mint Errors for PCGS. A 50+ Year PNG Member.A full-time numismatist since 1972, retired in 2022.
@ColonelJessup said:
The right authenticators would know easily. The ten Langbords have been on display, the fabric is identical to the 32's, and the die effects are easily analyzed. Does NGC have images up? FOI (Freedom of Information) Act?
My remark on @FredWeinberg's fingernails is because I visualize the defining moment of authenticating the "missing" 1913 "V" was him bending over under the light with the coin in-hand looking at the edge. It wouldn't be the first time he was on the cover of Rolling Stone .
He might but would not say "and it matches three others I've inspected under similar circumstances".
Let's remember that's a scene from several movies and TV shows mentioning coins in several excellent threads elsewhere
Quite a few others who post here would have the chops to do it; I'm not among them but the "real deals" are easy to locate.
We're talking about authenticating them BEFORE even contacting the mint that hey we found these 10 1933 gold coins and we want to know if they're real. So how would you go about that?
Or if 4 months into sparring with the mint, the mint says we're wasting our time until we know that they're authentic would you say, well we'll contact an expert and get their opinion or you could send it to PCGS and let them authenticate it or just show it to HRH at a show and let him render an opinion. There's at least one member here who has actually sold a couple, so he'd be a go to person as well.
In my opinion, Any competent professional numismatist who regularly handles large amounts of gold would know a 1933 $20 was authentic the minute they saw it. Then a few more seconds with a glass would confirm it.
Since it is so special, they would probably take more time to enjoy examining it further. While some folks posting here have diagnostic records of the edge on 1932 coins, I'll bet some others have actually "mapped the 1933 edge devices."
BTW, I believe at some point in the future, counterfeits will be so deceptive, that what I posted above will not be true.
Back when the two DuPont 1804 dollars were still missing, there was a con man who traveled the country going into small to mid-sized coin shops with skillfully altered 1804 dollars that he would sell to them as one of the stolen DuPont coins that they could never, ever show to anybody for whatever he could get for them, supposedly around $10,000 on average. I remember talking to one person who called before buying it (he said) that I explained the scam to, that nevertheless bought the coin and sent it in (I suspect he had already bought it). Of course it was no good.
About a year before the Linderman walked in the door I went through a long series of conversations with a guy who really, really, really wanted to buy an 1804 that had been offered to him, and I kept telling him it was a con game. The seller kept coming up with excuses for why the coin could not be sent or brought to Colorado Springs, though finally he agreed to let the buyer bring it there himself if he put up a $50,000 cash deposit. I kept saying don't do it, by the time we tell you it is no good your money has disappeared.
Finally the would-be buyer commissioned me to travel on my own time to look at the coin in Las Vegas. I liked Vegas, I was young and single, so I named my fee plus expenses, got paid up front and flew out there with a microscope and some reference books. Of course the seller never showed when the buyer called his bluff, so I did a little gambling on the buyer's money, took in a show and had a nice time. I told the buyer I had just saved him $48,000, and he should not buy coins from strangers in casinos.
Of course I could not have issued a certificate, but I did not expect the coin to be real. If it was real the buyer could always submit it officially himself later.
Funny thing......when the Linderman dollar came it, it came in from Las Vegas. I gave the FBI my phone records from the would-be buyer, and after first denying knowing anything about it, finally identified the would-be seller as the father-in-law of the guy that brought the coin in the door in Colorado Springs!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Thanks Tom. Stories such as this are important to be told or they will be lost to numismatic history! Please don't be shy in the future about posting any of your escapades while at ANACS and after.
@Insider2 said:
In my opinion, Any competent professional numismatist who regularly handles large amounts of gold would know a 1933 $20 was authentic the minute they saw it. Then a few more seconds with a glass would confirm it.
Since it is so special, they would probably take more time to enjoy examining it further. While some folks posting here have diagnostic records of the edge on 1932 coins, I'll bet some others have actually "mapped the 1933 edge devices."
BTW, I believe at some point in the future, counterfeits will be so deceptive, that what I posted above will not be true.
It's very sad to say that I have to agree with you.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
@Insider2 said:
In my opinion, Any competent professional numismatist who regularly handles large amounts of gold would know a 1933 $20 was authentic the minute they saw it. Then a few more seconds with a glass would confirm it.
Since it is so special, they would probably take more time to enjoy examining it further. While some folks posting here have diagnostic records of the edge on 1932 coins, I'll bet some others have actually "mapped the 1933 edge devices."
BTW, I believe at some point in the future, counterfeits will be so deceptive, that what I posted above will not be true.
Dan Carr [if he hasn't already] should restrike a few and release them into the wild.
Sketchy deal all around. These coins are poison to anyone who owns one. Also I believe the "new" piece referenced in the CW article is already in government possession. Apologies if someone already posted this earlier.
Comments
You did mention being waterboarded to reveal the whereabouts of the other 8.
I should hope no one here would be that foolish either.
They're all safe, once out of the hands of the people.
Meanwhile, I believe those who smeared Israel Switt's name through this ordeal, do owe his dependents an apology AND the value of 10 ONE OUNCE gold coins, not to mention restitution for their costs in dealing with our judicial system via the courts. (that's just me, though) Izzy should be exonerated, too. Maybe even canonized.
The two authenticators will verify it outside of US jurisdiction and the rest is easy and obvious. Pay for their tickets, champagne and confidentiality and all proofs and bona fides can be established easily. With an established local banker/lawyer combo with experience in dealing with the first-world problems of second-tier oligarchs.
When they make the movie, consider that @FredWeinberg looks great in a trench coat and keeps his fingernails clean for close-ups
If you need a government lawyer, Giuliani will do it for free (if he can still give it away 
)_
Would access to known remaining coins like those in the Smithsonian be needed for authentication?
The right authenticators would know easily. The ten Langbords have been on display, the fabric is identical to the 32's, and the die effects are easily analyzed. Does NGC have images up? FOI (Freedom of Information) Act?
My remark on @FredWeinberg's fingernails is because I visualize the defining moment of authenticating the "missing" 1913 "V" was him bending over under the light with the coin in-hand looking at the edge. It wouldn't be the first time he was on the cover of Rolling Stone
.
He might but would not say "and it matches three others I've inspected under similar circumstances".
Let's remember that's a scene from several movies and TV shows mentioning coins in several excellent threads elsewhere
Quite a few others who post here would have the chops to do it; I'm not among them but the "real deals" are easy to locate.
I actually held them, raw, on
the edge, to match what I
called the 'ballistic' lines on
the plain edge of the Nickels.
They were struck at the same
time, in the same collar.
Colonel, thanks for the nice
words and reference.
I could not say that the coin shown
around 1976-77 was the same
Fenton coin 25 years later. (1933 $20)
If you ask politely, Dear Leader will show you his.
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
We're talking about authenticating them BEFORE even contacting the mint that hey we found these 10 1933 gold coins and we want to know if they're real. So how would you go about that?
Or if 4 months into sparring with the mint, the mint says we're wasting our time until we know that they're authentic would you say, well we'll contact an expert and get their opinion or you could send it to PCGS and let them authenticate it or just show it to HRH at a show and let him render an opinion. There's at least one member here who has actually sold a couple, so he'd be a go to person as well.
In my opinion, Any competent professional numismatist who regularly handles large amounts of gold would know a 1933 $20 was authentic the minute they saw it. Then a few more seconds with a glass would confirm it.
Since it is so special, they would probably take more time to enjoy examining it further. While some folks posting here have diagnostic records of the edge on 1932 coins, I'll bet some others have actually "mapped the 1933 edge devices."
BTW, I believe at some point in the future, counterfeits will be so deceptive, that what I posted above will not be true.
Back when the two DuPont 1804 dollars were still missing, there was a con man who traveled the country going into small to mid-sized coin shops with skillfully altered 1804 dollars that he would sell to them as one of the stolen DuPont coins that they could never, ever show to anybody for whatever he could get for them, supposedly around $10,000 on average. I remember talking to one person who called before buying it (he said) that I explained the scam to, that nevertheless bought the coin and sent it in (I suspect he had already bought it). Of course it was no good.
About a year before the Linderman walked in the door I went through a long series of conversations with a guy who really, really, really wanted to buy an 1804 that had been offered to him, and I kept telling him it was a con game. The seller kept coming up with excuses for why the coin could not be sent or brought to Colorado Springs, though finally he agreed to let the buyer bring it there himself if he put up a $50,000 cash deposit. I kept saying don't do it, by the time we tell you it is no good your money has disappeared.
Finally the would-be buyer commissioned me to travel on my own time to look at the coin in Las Vegas. I liked Vegas, I was young and single, so I named my fee plus expenses, got paid up front and flew out there with a microscope and some reference books. Of course the seller never showed when the buyer called his bluff, so I did a little gambling on the buyer's money, took in a show and had a nice time. I told the buyer I had just saved him $48,000, and he should not buy coins from strangers in casinos.
Of course I could not have issued a certificate, but I did not expect the coin to be real. If it was real the buyer could always submit it officially himself later.
Funny thing......when the Linderman dollar came it, it came in from Las Vegas. I gave the FBI my phone records from the would-be buyer, and after first denying knowing anything about it, finally identified the would-be seller as the father-in-law of the guy that brought the coin in the door in Colorado Springs!
Thanks Tom. Stories such as this are important to be told or they will be lost to numismatic history! Please don't be shy in the future about posting any of your escapades while at ANACS and after.
That is one great story! Glad you shared it with us, Tom. There is a WHOLE lot of tomfoolery in the Hobby.
Pete
It's very sad to say that I have to agree with you.
Pete
Dan Carr [if he hasn't already] should restrike a few and release them into the wild.
@BAJJERFAN said: "Dan Carr [if he hasn't already] should restrike a few and release them into the wild."
Check out the Dan Carr thread.
Not sure that I want to wade through all of that.
He's selling 1933's.
OK I figured that. Are they good enough to pass muster as the real thing? Would there be any blowback if one released them into the wild?
Are these safe?? Not sure I would use metal prongs but I guess they aren't going anywhere. How many does the Smithsonian own?
Maybe. Maybe not. It could be owned by a foreign government or individual not under U.S. jurisdiction.
Sketchy deal all around. These coins are poison to anyone who owns one. Also I believe the "new" piece referenced in the CW article is already in government possession. Apologies if someone already posted this earlier.
RIP Mom- 1932-2012