Looking through the toning

davids5104 · May 18, 2018 7:16PM

I have a problem being able to look through this type toning on coins for grades. I think a lot of franklins have this type of toning. I purchased this dime and even though I am a collector of dimes I am unable to see the grade for it. I have plenty of examples to compare but the unevenness of the toning makes it difficult for me. Does anyone else have this issue or am I alone?

This second example has a smoother finish and I do not struggle as hard

Insider2 · May 18, 2018 9:06PM

I find it very easy. I use a stereo microscope at 7X and fluorescent light. That eliminates the reflection of light from the toned surface and you can see right through it.

Without these tools, your best bet is a strong light and magnification.

PS Pretty coins.

rln_14 · May 18, 2018 10:44PM

To me, that type of toning on the 49 is ugly, to be brutally honest, and yes, I have no clue how u can tell the grade through that stuff

BG · May 19, 2018 2:21AM

photo 1957 NGC Roosie in 67 Obv Combo.jpg

photo eBay 1957 NGC Roosie in 67 Slab Obv 2.jpg

davids5104 · May 19, 2018 5:25AM

Both of the examples I posted are awarded Stars in NGC holders.

davids5104 · May 19, 2018 5:27AM

@BG said:

I certainly don't have the necessary tools to grade that. I can't see any detail.

ms70 · May 19, 2018 5:33AM

I sent in a dime that toned in the mint set packaging. It came back AU55.

david3142 · May 19, 2018 5:47AM

@davids5104 said:

@BG said:

I certainly don't have the necessary tools to grade that. I can't see any detail.

No one can grade that coin from those pictures. I’m sure it would be very difficult in hand too. Learning to grade through toning is one of the most difficult aspects of grading and takes a lot of practice. It is harder on smaller coins, too.

ricko · May 19, 2018 5:50AM

Tarnish free coins are easier to grade.... Cheers, RickO

davids5104 · May 19, 2018 6:03AM

We have 2 coins posted... anyone what to take a stab on the grades... both are awarded stars from NGC

erwindoc · May 19, 2018 6:12AM

MS66/MS65 without seeing them in hand.

rmpsrpms · May 19, 2018 7:00AM

I've seen lots of grading mistakes on toned coins. Toning hides contacts and issues.

DollarAfterDollar · May 19, 2018 7:01AM

A very bright light get's right through the darkest toning up close.

ColonelJessup · May 19, 2018 9:04AM

A useful trick John Albanese taught me in 1985.
Place your coin in an inch or so of water and shine a bright light.
Rotate the bowl of water slightly to rotate the coin.
The coin certainly will appear to be brighter than it actually appears in-hand.
So will many mars and imperfections not normally or easily seen at normal viewing angles.
Now dry it in the open air and look again.

Of course white coins are the easiest to grade. But this can still help, as in a hairlines/die polishing combination.
Mottled coins are surely the worst to analyze because of uneven shifts in toning affecting reflectivity.

This little trick can sometimes make life a lot easier.

Insider2 · May 19, 2018 4:29PM

@ColonelJessup said:
A useful trick John Albanese taught me in 1985.
Place your coin in an inch or so of water and shine a bright light.
Rotate the bowl of water slightly to rotate the coin.
The coin certainly will appear to be brighter than it actually appears in-hand.
So will many mars and imperfections not normally or easily seen at normal viewing angles.
Now dry it in the open air and look again.

Of course white coins are the easiest to grade. But this can still help, as in a hairlines/die polishing combination.
Mottled coins are surely the worst to analyze because of uneven shifts in toning affecting reflectivity.

This little trick can sometimes make life a lot easier.

If you try this trick, be very careful how it is dried as that's when many coins are ruined. Nothing except air (cold or hot) touches a coin I dry. Usually, I'll use TRIPLE FILTERED compressed air that is first blown into the air to further clean any form of solid or liquid contamination from the nozzle. IMO, many coins spot due to compressed air being used to assemble the slabs. In the past, when using compressed air I could see a fine mist leaving the nozzle when the trigger was first pulled. That cannot be good for a coin!

@rmpsrpms said:
I've seen lots of grading mistakes on toned coins. Toning hides contacts and issues.

AFAIK, until well after 2000, darkly toned coins as the ugly one graded 67 WERE VIRTUALLY NEVER GRADED above MS-64! Things have changed, yet colorful toning is still better than uniformly dark.

sparky64 · May 19, 2018 6:46PM

Great topic @davids5104 .
I like the look of both of your dimes.

ColonelJessup · May 19, 2018 8:05PM

@Insider2 said:

@ColonelJessup said:
A useful trick John Albanese taught me in 1985.
Place your coin in an inch or so of water and shine a bright light.
Rotate the bowl of water slightly to rotate the coin.
The coin certainly will appear to be brighter than it actually appears in-hand.
So will many mars and imperfections not normally or easily seen at normal viewing angles.
Now dry it in the open air and look again.

Of course white coins are the easiest to grade. But this can still help, as in a hairlines/die polishing combination.
Mottled coins are surely the worst to analyze because of uneven shifts in toning affecting reflectivity.

This little trick can sometimes make life a lot easier.

If you try this trick, be very careful how it is dried as that's when many coins are ruined. Nothing except air (cold or hot) touches a coin I dry. Usually, I'll use TRIPLE FILTERED compressed air that is first blown into the air to further clean any form of solid or liquid contamination from the nozzle. IMO, many coins spot due to compressed air being used to assemble the slabs. In the past, when using compressed air I could see a fine mist leaving the nozzle when the trigger was first pulled. That cannot be good for a coin!

@rmpsrpms said:
I've seen lots of grading mistakes on toned coins. Toning hides contacts and issues.

AFAIK, until well after 2000, darkly toned coins as the ugly one graded 67 WERE VIRTUALLY NEVER GRADED above MS-64! Things have changed, yet colorful toning is still better than uniformly dark.

OTOH, I've been using slight pressure on a Bounty paper towel "sandwich" for the last 20 years and have dried PR68's (and everything else) with this technology effortlessly and without a single repercussion. YMMV

Insider2 · May 19, 2018 8:15PM

@ColonelJessup said:

@Insider2 said:

@ColonelJessup said:
A useful trick John Albanese taught me in 1985.
Place your coin in an inch or so of water and shine a bright light.
Rotate the bowl of water slightly to rotate the coin.
The coin certainly will appear to be brighter than it actually appears in-hand.
So will many mars and imperfections not normally or easily seen at normal viewing angles.
Now dry it in the open air and look again.

Of course white coins are the easiest to grade. But this can still help, as in a hairlines/die polishing combination.
Mottled coins are surely the worst to analyze because of uneven shifts in toning affecting reflectivity.

This little trick can sometimes make life a lot easier.

If you try this trick, be very careful how it is dried as that's when many coins are ruined. Nothing except air (cold or hot) touches a coin I dry. Usually, I'll use TRIPLE FILTERED compressed air that is first blown into the air to further clean any form of solid or liquid contamination from the nozzle. IMO, many coins spot due to compressed air being used to assemble the slabs. In the past, when using compressed air I could see a fine mist leaving the nozzle when the trigger was first pulled. That cannot be good for a coin!

@rmpsrpms said:
I've seen lots of grading mistakes on toned coins. Toning hides contacts and issues.

AFAIK, until well after 2000, darkly toned coins as the ugly one graded 67 WERE VIRTUALLY NEVER GRADED above MS-64! Things have changed, yet colorful toning is still better than uniformly dark.

OTOH, I've been using slight pressure on a Bounty paper towel "sandwich" for the last 20 years and have dried PR68's (and everything else) with this technology effortlessly and without a single repercussion. YMMV

Perhaps it is because you examine coins differently than I do. I see things on coins that no one cares about under the cover of "market acceptability." Nevertheless, I'll play the game up to a point and ignore some things.

I will also admit that I treat the property of our conservation customers much better than I may do with my coins as I don't own any multi-thousand dollar Proofs and such. Well, they are mine for a few days.

Timbuk3 · May 19, 2018 11:22PM

Interesting information, thanks !!!

davids5104 · May 20, 2018 10:55AM

Seeing how this did not pick up a ton of steam...
The 49S is MS-67*
The 64 is 66+*FT

Looking through the toning

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