Color changes on a coin's surface that aid in grading.

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Insider2
Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

This coin has very few marks; a perfectly clean cheek; a full strike; nice luster; and above average eye appeal. It is a very nice looking coin and sent in as a gem w/minimum grade of MS-65 requested.

What do you see in the image? Describe the colors, and how they appear.

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  • ChrisH821
    ChrisH821 Posts: 7,151 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    The "halo" around the devices makes me think lightly cleaned. Maybe an old baking soda job?

    Collector, occasional seller

  • Unknown
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  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2018 9:10AM
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    That was too easy! You both picked out the "halo effect" immediately. It is caused most often by a mechanical treatment such as cleaning. For others, note the light and dark areas. The lighter areas of the surface are next to the relief where the "treatment" did not affect it as much if at all.

  • FranklinHalfAddict
    FranklinHalfAddict Posts: 697 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I see a dull silver color with the incorrect white balance.
    What are you trying to get at with this post?

  • FranklinHalfAddict
    FranklinHalfAddict Posts: 697 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Insider2 said:
    That was too easy! You both picked out the "halo effect" immediately. It is caused most often by a mechanical treatment such as cleaning. For others, note the light and dark areas. The lighter areas of the surface are next to the relief where the "treatment" did not affect it as much if at all.

    Ahhhh. Gotcha. I noticed that immediately as well but didn’t know what the cause was!
    Thanks for the info.

  • OldEastside
    OldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I see an eagle eyeballing me :smiley:

    Steve

    Promote the Hobby
  • OldEastside
    OldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @FadeToBlack said:

    @OldEastside said:
    I see an eagle eyeballing me :smiley:

    Steve

    OK................now I see the dull grey :smiley:

    Steve

    Promote the Hobby
  • asheland
    asheland Posts: 24,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Indeed looks lightly cleaned (broken luster)

    My YouTube Channel

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 16, 2018 9:51AM
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    @FranklinHalfAddict said:
    I see a dull silver color with the incorrect white balance.
    What are you trying to get at with this post?

    PS For you photo buffs, I deliberately altered the white balance to show the surface alteration better.

  • 59Horsehide
    59Horsehide Posts: 427 ✭✭✭
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    What is the grade?

  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @59Horsehide said:
    What is the grade?

    Depends on who is grading it. $65 to several thousand. :)

    Uncirculated details, Cleaned.

    Uncirculated details Altered surface

    MS-61

    MS-62

    MS-63

  • Walkerguy21D
    Walkerguy21D Posts: 12,165 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    So is the lighter 'halo' area the original metal flow/mint luster?
    Just trying to understand the cause of the appearance.

    Successful BST transactions with 177 members. breakdown, scotty1419, mattniss, bigjpst, onlyroosies, Manorcourtman, guitarwes, Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug
  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Yep. When a coin wears normally the luster goes on the high points first, then the centers of the fields are affected. Note that reverses have smaller fields than the obverse so they usually show less wear in the fields than the large open obverse fields (using Morgan dollar). The last place we find luster is up against the relief - where it jumps straight off the field AND especially inside the closed areas of the letters.

    Mechanical or any abrasion (circulation wear) affects the coin in basically the same way. This causes the "halo effect" we see on improperly cleaned coins and also normally circulated coins BUT the "halo" caused by each looks differently. In practice (at least mine) "Halo Effect" is reserved for improperly cleaned or stained coins.

    Here is a mechanically cleaned coin. Note in this case the area next to the relief is darker yet there is still a "halo" visible around the stars where the brushes did not disturb. I've posted two images with the coin rotated in the light.

    Look at the dark patch between the "1" and "8" (not visible) In the bottom image. Learning about this characteristic will help you detect cleaned coins.

  • Aotearoa
    Aotearoa Posts: 1,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I feel for Ms Liberty.

    Smitten with DBLCs.

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Good information, this will help new collectors and posts such as this are one of the major benefits of the forum. Thanks @Insider2 .... Cheers, RickO

  • gtstang
    gtstang Posts: 1,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    How noticeable is the change in color in hand dependent on type of lighting used?

  • 1Mike1
    1Mike1 Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Insider2 said:

    @59Horsehide said:
    What is the grade?

    Depends on who is grading it. $65 to several thousand. :)

    Uncirculated details, Cleaned.

    Uncirculated details Altered surface

    MS-61

    MS-62

    MS-63

    So do you think some graders are forgiving these problems or do you think they simply are not spotting or don't recognize the problems

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
  • Insider2
    Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @1Mike1 said:

    @Insider2 said:

    @59Horsehide said:
    What is the grade?

    Depends on who is grading it. $65 to several thousand. :)

    Uncirculated details, Cleaned.

    Uncirculated details Altered surface

    MS-61

    MS-62

    MS-63

    So do you think some graders are forgiving these problems or do you think they simply are not spotting or don't recognize the problems

    Unfortunately, many factors go into a coin's grade - especially an expensive one. IMO, they shouldn't but they do. "Market Acceptability" in the eye of each examiner is one of the big ones. Additionally, not everyone is at the same level of expertise. Even so-called experts will disagree. In one Federal Court case brought by the FTC, a St. Gaudens $20 was graded from AU-58 to MS-65. All of us were correct! :(

  • AUandAG
    AUandAG Posts: 25,050 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    With Insider's permission my 1889CC added mintmarks dollar from Vietnam:
    Note the discoloration around the CC's just like in the above posted by Insider.
    bob

    Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
  • asheland
    asheland Posts: 24,545 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @Insider2 you really are an asset to these boards! These threads are the best.

    My YouTube Channel

  • 1Mike1
    1Mike1 Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Agree, I like these posts. Free education! :)

    "May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"

    "A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown

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