What is the average CAC approval rate?

thefinn · May 6, 2018 11:39AM

I just sent my first lot of 12 coins to CAC for verification and got 10 green beans and 2 gold beans. It sounds like a lot of people only hit around 50%. I was selective about what I sent in, but are most submissions more of gambling and hoping, or people that just don't know what a quality coin is for the grade?

divecchia · May 6, 2018 11:49AM

I don't know what the average is, but 12 for 12 with 2 golds is a great score and most definitely not average.

Congrats, Donato

Justacommeman · May 6, 2018 11:51AM

Most people are elective when sending in. I'm guessing around 40% sticker. It would obviously be lower if coins weren't screened before submitting

Nice job!

m

ColonelJessup · May 6, 2018 12:12PM

@thefinn said:
I just sent my first lot of 12 coins to CAC for verification and got 10 green beans and 2 gold beans. It sounds like a lot of people only hit around 50%. I was selective about what I sent in, but are most submissions more of gambling and hoping, or people that just don't know what a quality coin is for the grade?

What was in the package? XF Busties? 63 Morgans? 66RD Lincolns? etc?
Your 116% approval rate is better than some usually do.

Only lesson I could take from this is that you should loosen up and send in more coins

There are two kinds of "mulligans" handed out in Bedminster, JA gardens, not golfs, but I like his process for fairness (no bean=no fee) as being more even-handed to the collectors in the 99%

thefinn · May 6, 2018 4:21PM

@gtstang said:
It's probably somewhere close to the same as what pcgs crossover percentages are.

I never thought about that, and you are probably right. Very astute observation.

ColonelJessup · May 6, 2018 4:43PM

Maybe some of the coins you're not sending in are going to work and change your idea of what solid might be.
It's a zone, not a line. Maybe a couple of supposed solids will fail. Wholesome but you missed a mark or line?

JA has always been happy to explain coin by coin on the phone to any collector he's encountered. Got potential doubts you may not have fully anticipated? Call 908-781-9101 and ask for Paula. She can set this up in advance so you'll be notified (before shipping). I'm not saying this is done for every order requested, but I've seen it done plenty. Lose a day or two of shipping time for the consult? Life could be worse .

astrorat · May 7, 2018 2:46PM

Here are the results of my 219 submissions:

Green: 149 (68%)
Gold: 5 (2.3%)
No sticker: 65 (29.7%)

The 70% sticker rate is about what I expected. I felt about 2/3 were sticker worthy and 1/3 were questionable. A few stickerings surprised me and the lack of stickerings with a few coins also surprised me.

DollarAfterDollar · May 7, 2018 5:56PM

I average about 75% but as a collector I don't abuse the service they provide. I look over every coin I buy and if I don't think it's high for the grade, it stays home.

I have collected 5 gold beans and about a hundred greens thus far.

logger7 · May 9, 2018 4:41PM

Since cac averages around a 40% acceptance rate, assumptions can be made on much higher success rates; the submitters were extremely conservative in their buying habits over the years, only purchasing coins that were high end for grade with nice eye appeal and no problems. Buyers like that could be expected to pay significant premiums, get lucky with such opportunities, passing over decent for grade coins; or they could have relied on top dealers to steer premium coins their way. I just hope the sellers were always treated right because premium coins always deserve premium prices.

gtstang · May 6, 2018 12:11PM

It's probably somewhere close to the same as what pcgs crossover percentages are.

thefinn · May 6, 2018 4:19PM

Sent a 1885-CC Morgan in OGH MS64, 1936 Buffalo nickel rattler MS65, 1882 Morgan newer PCGS MS65, 1921 Peace MS65 newer PCGS, 1934 Peace NGC MS65, Delaware MS63 rattler (Gold bean), Maryland MS64 Doily (Gold bean), Elgin MS64 Doily, Gettysburg MS64 Doily, Wisconsin MS64 Doily York MS65 Doily & 1879-S MS65PL rattler. I thought the Delaware and the 1879-S Morgan were the best shots for gold. I personally don't send things to try to get a bean - only if I think they're solid.

Justacommeman · May 6, 2018 4:53PM

It’s an amazing service

m

BAJJERFAN · May 6, 2018 5:48PM

@thefinn said:
I just sent my first lot of 12 coins to CAC for verification and got 10 green beans and 2 gold beans. It sounds like a lot of people only hit around 50%. I was selective about what I sent in, but are most submissions more of gambling and hoping, or people that just don't know what a quality coin is for the grade?

Aren't many coins being sent to the TPGs in the gambling and hoping category?

Timbuk3 · May 6, 2018 5:51PM

Wow, sweet, congratulations !!!

ricko · May 7, 2018 9:29AM

That is an amazing submission.... actually, I do not recall reading here of one that good before. I would say your grading skills are good...may even be a tad tight. Congratulations... Cheers, RickO

asheland · May 7, 2018 9:50AM

Congrats!

thefinn · May 7, 2018 11:42AM

I am a very conservative grader and only buy what I agree with raw or slabbed. And I never have a problem selling at good prices to the knowledgeable. I will pay a bit more to get a good coin.

Peace_dollar88 · May 7, 2018 11:47AM

I seem to bat about 50% however I do send coins that I don't think will sticker just to see if they will. this next sub I will be a little tougher on what I send in. we will see what happens.

cameonut2011 · May 7, 2018 2:07PM

@Justacommeman said:
Most people are elective when sending in. I'm guessing around 40% sticker. It would obviously be lower if coins weren't screened before submitting

Nice job!

m

That was the number that JA gave out a few years ago. I think as more coins are regraded and much of the nicer stuff has already been submitted, the number will go down for subsequent submissions.

cameonut2011 · May 7, 2018 2:10PM

@ColonelJessup said:
There are two kinds of "mulligans" handed out in Bedminster, JA gardens, not golfs, but I like his process for fairness (no bean=no fee) as being more even-handed to the collectors in the 99%

It is amazing that John still does this as I am sure it eats up a lot of his time/resources.

thefinn · May 8, 2018 6:42PM

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I wasn't looking for an "atta boy" or pat on the back - just curious is this is what to expect. I have seen a few videos on youtube (be selective on the info posted there!) of people getting back coins from CAC and only getting two or three beans out of a dozen. But seeing what some of the coins look like that were sent in, I can tell even on a monitor that they were unworthy specimens. It is great that he only charges for hits, which says a lot about the man and the company. I will have to pull a few of my so-sos, which are still good, to see what happens.

thefinn · May 8, 2018 6:45PM

@DollarAfterDollar said:
I average about 75% but as a collector I don't abuse the service they provide. I look over every coin I buy and if I don't think it's high for the grade, it stays home.

I have collected 5 gold beans and about a hundred greens thus far.

Have you ever gotten a gold bean on anything that was recently graded (blue PCGS holders and newer NGC)?

ChristopherCoins · May 8, 2018 7:30PM

thefinn - you had a great result especially since so many of the top coins have already made a trip to CAC. I have to assume that some of these were newly graded or not from the bigger auction houses? A lot of the auction houses submit collections they are auctioning to CAC in bulk. The only CAC gold I ever seem to see are in OGH's so curious if yours were.

thechristophercollection.net

astrorat · May 8, 2018 7:44PM

@Justacommeman said:
It’s an amazing service

m

Wise submitters will consider JA's expert opinion an educational expense. For collectors, you only pay if you are successful in your submission meeting JA's standards. If your coins fail, you don't pay. Sometimes you can even engage JA in a personal conversation about your submission. Great value.

It's like taking a college course on a topic that greatly interests you where you only pay for the course if you earn a 'pass' and don't pay if you 'fail.' And sometimes you can even catch the professor during office hours for a conversation.

If your coins 'pass,' there is a perception of increased value (in value or easy of selling) and if they 'fail,' you don't pay (except for postage/insurance both ways). Great value.

Don't think JA's opinion has value, don't submit your coins. Don't think the professor will teach a good class, don't enroll.

Justacommeman · May 9, 2018 1:42AM

@astrorat said:

@Justacommeman said:
It’s an amazing service

m

Wise submitters will consider JA's expert opinion an educational expense. For collectors, you only pay if you are successful in your submission meeting JA's standards. If your coins fail, you don't pay. Sometimes you can even engage JA in a personal conversation about your submission. Great value.

It's like taking a college course on a topic that greatly interests you where you only pay for the course if you earn a 'pass' and don't pay if you 'fail.' And sometimes you can even catch the professor during office hours for a conversation.

If your coins 'pass,' there is a perception of increased value (in value or easy of selling) and if they 'fail,' you don't pay (except for postage/insurance both ways). Great value.

Don't think JA's opinion has value, don't submit your coins. Don't think the professor will teach a good class, don't enroll.

Lane, very well put!

I’ve been fortunate to go 41 out of 47 on my submissions. The great part is a learned a TON on why the 6 didn’t sticker. One was a super valueable lesson. Hard to put a value on that.

mark

mommam17 · May 9, 2018 6:56AM

At the first Coinfest Show, when CAC started, we submitted 40 coins. 34 got stickers. The other 6, I got educated by John explaining why they didn't sticker. I, later submitted the rest of my collection and again, learned a lot. Now 10 years later, my collection has improved from what I learned from John.

Cougar1978 · May 9, 2018 4:08PM

Do u care?

Justacommeman · May 9, 2018 4:18PM

@mommam17 said:
At the first Coinfest Show, when CAC started, we submitted 40 coins. 34 got stickers. The other 6, I got educated by John explaining why they didn't sticker. I, later submitted the rest of my collection and again, learned a lot. Now 10 years later, my collection has improved from what I learned from John.

Boom. Nice

mark

DollarAfterDollar · May 9, 2018 6:05PM

I've had a couple of coins returned from CAC that had a sticky note attached indicating PCV. Similarly, I've had them point out cracked slabs even when I wasn't aware of the crack. They are very thorough.

I've always assumed JA keeps very concise notes. While I've never called him to inquire about a coin that failed to make the cut, I cannot believe you can just call him days later and ask him "do you remember that 1947 S Walker in PCGS MS 65 you didn't bean last week?" How else could he possibly remember?

thefinn · May 10, 2018 7:43AM

@Cougar1978 said:
Do u care?

I am curious. Someone answered it is 40%. If "u" don't care, then why even bother chiming in?

topstuf · May 10, 2018 8:48AM

Just for fun, just now I searched Collector's Corner for "PCGS CAC" on Walking Lib halves.

The offerings dropped from 101 ...pages... to.... 14 pages.

logger7 · May 15, 2018 5:37AM

A few submitters get high success rates, but I have seen seemingly irrational rejection rates in many other cases; a local long term dealer who is very accurate on assessing how raw coins will grade, has been dumbfounded on cac's rejections of nice no problem coins.

MrEureka · May 15, 2018 8:30AM

@DollarAfterDollar said:

I've always assumed JA keeps very concise notes. While I've never called him to inquire about a coin that failed to make the cut, I cannot believe you can just call him days later and ask him "do you remember that 1947 S Walker in PCGS MS 65 you didn't bean last week?" How else could he possibly remember?

I would venture to say that most numismatists would remember every 47-S Walker they've ever seen. I know I would!

TomB · May 15, 2018 10:35AM

@MrEureka said:

@DollarAfterDollar said:

I've always assumed JA keeps very concise notes. While I've never called him to inquire about a coin that failed to make the cut, I cannot believe you can just call him days later and ask him "do you remember that 1947 S Walker in PCGS MS 65 you didn't bean last week?" How else could he possibly remember?

I would venture to say that most numismatists would remember every 47-S Walker they've ever seen. I know I would!

Kind of unfortunate (or fortunate, if you like) choice of random date to choose!

DollarAfterDollar · May 15, 2018 1:25PM

Oops, typo. Meant 46 S .

ColonelJessup · May 15, 2018 3:28PM

@DollarAfterDollar said:

Oops, typo. Meant 46 S .

Right Nice gaslighting us

Ironically, I've always thought he was a bit generous with flashy 66's of that date

What is the average CAC approval rate?

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