Good educational coin.. Fake Error
CascadeChris
Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭✭✭
Thought you guys would like to see this to know what a fake in collar multi-strike looks like. It looks very convincing at first but the obvious tell at first glance is the full rims with broadstruck style bowing. So what we have here is a counterfeit error made with partial false dies
The more you VAM..
5
Comments
Yes, definitely a good example of a "vice job".
Yes, that is totally fake...... Cheers, RickO
D Carr apprentice material?
Thanks for sharing the educational info and pics
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Dan,
You are the coiner but I thought a "vice job" was two genuine coins squeezed together so that the raised portion of one coin was sunken into the surface of the other coin. Since all the extra letters are raised, doesn't that mean some sort of die or punch with incuse letters was used to make this piece?
I suppose the false partial dies could have been squeezed with a vice instead of struck by a press which may be what he meant. Look at the lower left obverse rim. So technically a vice job, just not what we typically think of how the term is used. If you look at it It does seem that the impressions were made slowly like with a vice instead of hammered or using a press.
@CascadeChris
Now I'm really confused. A die in a vice? That seems like a stretch. I just want to know what a "vice job" is. On another Internet forum, all the "vice job" alterations have incuse letters! If the letters are raised, some sort of die or punch was involved. If they were incuse, a simple "vice" + another coin is all that's needed.
I was just spitballing but a false die doesn't necessarily have to have a shank for mounting in a press. It could simply be a small metal block made from a positive image to get a negative.
A genuine coin could be pressed (using a vice or press) into some intermediate piece of material. Then that intermediate piece of material is pressed back into the same coin and/or different coin(s).
Here is one I did on my press (1971-S Eisenhower image superimposed on a 1971-D Kennedy - note raised "S" mint mark from the Eisenhower which appears between the "9" and "7"):
So the fake "die" is soft enough to get down past certain details on the host coins? (Presumably a sheet vs. block, then). The Ike "S" is lower than the JFK date.
OH MAN! Somebody ruined a perfectly good 15-S.
A 1957-D would have done just as good.
Pete
Cool thread!
Re: 1 cent 1915 S fake error??
As interesting as the Cent appears to be,
It is easy to make a statement based simply on the way it looks.
And by doing so, perhaps ruining or attacking someones otherwise stellar reputation.
And all this without having the coin "in hand".
Not saying it is not a result of someone playing around whith "who knows what kind of tools etc".
What I am saying is this: none of you has been saying conclusively how it became to be! everyone is simply speculating.
and who says it is impossible that it was done at the mint?
Can anyone say conclusively say that it was NOT done at the mint?
It was also mentioned that the cent is a Fake!
perhaps what was meant is that the item was subject of someone having fun disfiguring it.. for whatever reason.
But really??? was it a produced as a Fake which would be an illegal act? or is it simply just disfigured which is most likely not illegal?
Unless there is proof of it being a fake, or made with fake dies etc, I might be very reserved in stating that it is.
We can all speculate and have our own ideas of how, when where and why etc.. But??
I suggest perhaps some of you are aware of the Canada 1967 50 cent and $1 story. ( the triple goose)
Double and triple struck, flipped and again double and triple struck... the same coin, simply a mess. A court back then decided that the coins are legal. I owned one years ago, certified, but sold it. how did these get out of the mint? easy... there were coffeebreaks and backdoors...and machinery was not nearly as sophisticated as today.
perhaps the owner of the Cent is a member here or someone does now the person? and might offer to explain? (just speculating).
what a shame to see that 1915 s in that condition
I can say with full certainty that the 15-S Cent
was not multi-struck at the Mint.
I use the term 'false dies' -
It happens to all denominations, as the
Kennedy half shows - I've seen Morgan's
and Peace Dollars also struck from 'false
dies'