PCGS certifying David Hall flips

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morgandollar1878
morgandollar1878 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited March 20, 2018 8:14PM in U.S. Coin Forum

Seeing the post from @Outhaul got me thinking about it. What if PCGS would certify those old David Hall flips. Send them in, get them graded and have them put in to the currency holders. What say you guys?

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PCGS certifying David Hall flips

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  • astrorat
    astrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    What's the upside for PCGS? Imagine your pitching the idea to whomever makes these decisions ...

    What we do is this ... we have collectors submit old coins in flips from David's company. We re-grade the coins in those soft flips and put the new grades on the label ... just like the boys at NGC do with the GSA soft packs. Then ... and here's the cool part ... we have David defend how his coins were graded "wrong" back in the day. Brilliant! Okay ... let's vote before David gets back with the donuts.

    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • Cameonut
    Cameonut Posts: 7,436 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Certify them for what? They already have a grade on them.
    I'd never send mine in to get graded and entombed in a clunky currency holder.

    “In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson

    My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!

  • VanHalen
    VanHalen Posts: 4,330 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Reminds me of when I was in sales making a pitch to a disgruntled customer. His answer?

    "You're nuts man, you're nuts!"

  • Stork
    Stork Posts: 5,208 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I could make some sense. More of a preservation technique than a grading event though.

    Shoot, I have a Japanese Ministry of Finance plastic holder with NGC grading stickers (PCGS does that too). I tried to get NGC to put the holder (a bit smaller than a normal slab, and thinner, but not as big as many medals that get slabbed) into an oversized holder. NGC declined. Problem is the stickers are getting a bit beat up/smeared and I was thinking a slab to save them. Not too much different in this case other than the David Hall flip is a soft one.

    The downside is that there'd be another layer of plastic between you and the coin--protective perhaps, but not conducive to looking at the actual coin (which is perhaps the point of owning a coin after all).

    Kind of a toss up IMO, though I really would have 'slabbed the slab' in the case of the MOF holder. And, I personally, wouldn't mind seeing a DH flip in another layer of protection, whether it's a hard slab, currency slab (I don't know much about these), or even stuck in a larger sized airtite.

    (darkside, but in case you are curious, here is my MOF slab...you can see the tamper seals at the top and bottom, and that the label is getting a bit rough). Cracking it out would make this a generic piece of gold. In the MOF holder it's got history. The grading stickers were a great compromise by PCGS and NGC.

  • Outhaul
    Outhaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 21, 2018 6:24AM
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    I would say holder them in one of those holders that they used for the GSA soft packs without re-grading. It will protect the flip.

    Cheers

    Bob

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Why not just self slab? There are many slab collectors here, and the DH plastic holders are becoming scarce....Preserve a bit of history... Cheers, RickO

  • messydesk
    messydesk Posts: 20,814 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Because PCGS's "slab-in-a-slab" concept has proven to be so popular for GSA holders.

    John
    Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
  • johnny9434
    johnny9434 Posts: 34,051 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    i would say no because the coin has already been slabbed (for lack of better words)

  • BUFFNIXX
    BUFFNIXX Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I remember many year ago getting a big postcard from David Hall Rare Coins touting the fact that pcgs slabbed ms65 buffalo nickels would be a one thousand dollar coin!! Hey, maybe in the year 5000 or so. Good Grief!

    Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage
    a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    DH flips are PVC which is chemically unstable. How would they do long term encased in another holder?

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • morgandollar1878
    morgandollar1878 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @PerryHall said:
    DH flips are PVC which is chemically unstable. How would they do long term encased in another holder?

    The coins inside the flips are first put in cointain capsules. Some have been found with airtite capsules also.

    Instagram: nomad_numismatics
  • morgandollar1878
    morgandollar1878 Posts: 4,006 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    After reading the thoughts and opinions from those who posted, I guess it may not be a popular idea. Thank you for everyone's thoughts. I am still intrigued by the thought of it but I also know the chances of it ever happening is pretty much zero.

    Instagram: nomad_numismatics
  • Kkathyl
    Kkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I like the holders/flips but don’t want take chance of loss on moving coins in/ out of holders.

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • PerryHall
    PerryHall Posts: 47,749 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Perhaps we can convince CAC to sticker DH flips. ;)

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • Hemispherical
    Hemispherical Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @astrorat said:
    What's the upside for PCGS? Imagine your pitching the idea to whomever makes these decisions ...

    The buck stops here.

    Usually, the President of a company makes the decisions on something that will affect the bottom line.

    In this case... the current President replaced the topic of this thread. The interaction in the board room would be interesting, but I think everyone was on good terms, overall.

  • ColonelJessup
    ColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2019 10:46AM
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    Is the coin still inside? Sign me up. I'll take one. If it's autographed ;)
    I am, at this time, unwilling to set aside sufficient funds to guarantee I would be an effective market-maker. :# Or, should you ship them to me erroneously, to refund your postage >:)

    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • Walkerfan
    Walkerfan Posts: 10,391 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It would be redundant as they are already graded.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • LindeDad
    LindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Only if it's a TOP POP in the registry.

    My Current project....https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/mysetregistry/album/160794
  • CaptHenway
    CaptHenway Posts: 34,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    At a Central States show in Overland Park, KS in 1989 I tried to sell a Morgan Dollar in a David Hall flip to David Hall himself, and was told that those grades were no longer valid.

    Professional Numismatist, Retired. 55 year member ANA. Former ANA Senior Authenticator. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and ANA Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner of the PNG's 2026 Robert Friedberg Award for "The Enigmatic Lincoln Cents of 1922," Available now from Whitman or Amazon.
  • MFeld
    MFeld Posts: 17,131 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 23, 2019 1:52PM
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    @Walkerfan said:
    It would be redundant as they are already graded.

    Already graded by David Hall, not PCGS. PCGS will have different opinions (both lower and higher) than David Hall did on various coins.

    Please don’t take the above as an endorsement of the idea.😄

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Walkerfan
    Walkerfan Posts: 10,391 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @MFeld said:

    @Walkerfan said:
    It would be redundant as they are already graded.

    Already graded by David Hall, not PCGS. PCGS will have different opinions (both lower and higher) than David Hall did on various coins.

    Please don’t take the above as an endorsement of the idea.😄

    David Hall’s opinion is good enough for me. Besides, those flips are collectible in and of themselves, so I don’t want them entombed in additional plastic.

    I suppose if you really wanted/needed one for your registry set it might be a consideration....

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • Dave99B
    Dave99B Posts: 8,947 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Doubt there is enough demand for such a service. Like most businesses, PCGS is about volume.

    Dave

    Always looking for original, better date VF20-VF35 Barber quarters and halves, and a quality beer.
  • ECHOES
    ECHOES Posts: 2,974 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I like them just the way they are.

    ~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~
    POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
    Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
  • hutze1nm
    hutze1nm Posts: 235 ✭✭✭
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    I have 5 in waiting that I would send as quick as I could!

    Things I like to do: Collect PL Morgans. That’s is all.
  • Timbuk3
    Timbuk3 Posts: 11,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I have a few of them and decided to leave them as is. No reason to mess with a good thing !!! :)

    Timbuk3

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