Pattern coins are very difficult or impossible to resale

Zoins · March 17, 2018 4:17PM

Here's the USPatterns.com page on J1779a, now J1919. PCGS really should have the edge view on these photos.

http://uspatterns.com/j1779ap2008.html

This is a regular dies trial piece, struck in brass, of the 1907 arabic date St. Gaudens design. This used to be J1779A in earlier editions.

These were flattened by being passed through rollers removing almost all details except for the edge device which is still sharp on these.

The illustrated example is ex Kagin 11/73, Heritage 95 ANA and is the only one seen recently.

Goldberg 5/12 had 2 examples which only show edge detail so we cannot determine which Judd number they belong under.

Here's an HA auction from back in 1995:

https://coins.ha.com/itm/three-cent-pieces/other-us-sets-and-groupings-binder-lots/1907-double-eagle-judd-1779a-pollock-2008-r8-a-brass-trial-piece-of-the-saint-gaudens-double-eagle-with-a-lettered-edge/a/139-5557.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515

Brass Die Trial For the Saint-Gaudens Double Eagle--Elongated at the Mint

1907 Double Eagle, Judd-1779a, Pollock-2008, R.8. A brass trial piece of the Saint-Gaudens double eagle with a lettered edge. One of a tiny number of brass strikings of the new twenty-dollar gold piece. Among the last patterns released to collectors, all were intentionally elongated and their designs largely effaced by being passed through a rolling mill. These pieces are so elusive that they were unlisted in Dr. Judd's reference until his third edition was released. Only the faintest traces of the figure of Liberty can be guessed at, but the edge lettering and stars are fully evident.

Ex: M.A.N.A. Auction (Hollinbeck-Kagin's, 11/73), lot 1833. (PCGS# 61779)

Regulated · March 17, 2018 5:50PM

Thanks, Zoins - it's goofy and wonderful, and I love the edge. You can also make out the design in hand, if you have a good light and a vivid imagination...

Raybo · March 17, 2018 6:19PM

Thanks for the info.

MrEureka · March 17, 2018 8:09PM

uspatterns.stores.yahoo.net/j1779ap2008.html

Zoins · January 22, 2023 11:54PM

@Vonkraut74 said:
What do you guys think of this DuPont test pattern (even though it is mislabeled as AR, not AG)? Value?

An NGC MS63 Pollock-5389 that was sold for $747.50 way back in 2006. The lot description says it's a R7.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns-and-prototypes/-1964-p25c-pattern-quarter-dollar-pollock-5389-r7-ms63-ngc-indian-chief-design-above-ohi-yesa-the-reverse-has-a-s/a/390-21898.s

Zoins · January 23, 2023 12:11AM

@Lakesammman said:
If Simpson wants to sell the patterns I sold him, I'm all ears! Would love to have them back.....

Did you get your patterns back from Bob?

1northcoin · January 23, 2023 1:42AM

Thanks for resurrecting this thread. I missed it back in 2018. Curious what Regulated and others knowledgeable would say about the Pattern market today compared to where it was in 2018?

I have a three dollar copper pattern which was one of the first significant coins I acquired decades ago. It is referenced in my 3 dollar Registry set.

Zoins · January 23, 2023 1:49AM

@kiyote said:
It’s private trial piece by Fraser but it still makes my heart skip! They are actually two electrotrials. The pair last sold together for just shy of $30,000.

This is really cool.

They were last sold for $28,750.00 way back in 2003. I wonder how much they would go for now?

coinsarefun · January 23, 2023 8:51AM

@Zoins said:

@Vonkraut74 said:
What do you guys think of this DuPont test pattern (even though it is mislabeled as AR, not AG)? Value?

An NGC MS63 Pollock-5389 that was sold for $747.50 way back in 2006. The lot description says it's a R7.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns-and-prototypes/-1964-p25c-pattern-quarter-dollar-pollock-5389-r7-ms63-ngc-indian-chief-design-above-ohi-yesa-the-reverse-has-a-s/a/390-21898.s

.

.
This is a pretty cool one. The obverse die that was used is from the 1895 John Wanamaker Store Card.
I wonder how they got a hold of the die?

Zoins · January 23, 2023 9:08AM

@coinsarefun said:

@Zoins said:

@Vonkraut74 said:
What do you guys think of this DuPont test pattern (even though it is mislabeled as AR, not AG)? Value?

An NGC MS63 Pollock-5389 that was sold for $747.50 way back in 2006. The lot description says it's a R7.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns-and-prototypes/-1964-p25c-pattern-quarter-dollar-pollock-5389-r7-ms63-ngc-indian-chief-design-above-ohi-yesa-the-reverse-has-a-s/a/390-21898.s

This is a pretty cool one. The obverse die that was used is from the 1895 John Wanamaker Store Card.
I wonder how they got a hold of the die?

Du Pont contracted with August Conrad Frank who had the dies.

Read more here in this article by Paul Horner:

http://ncna.club/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/ZNCNA-Journal-V47-N1-2021.pdf

RLSnapper · January 23, 2023 9:09AM

I collect Late Date Large Cents and J-161 is on my radar. I think if the pattern fits your set then it works. I figure there are enough collectors who think like me.

oih82w8 · January 23, 2023 11:07AM

I feel that Patterns and varieties are in similar waters of attraction. Neat to look at, interesting for sure, but the buying audience can be hard to find. But when it does attract buyers, the results can be great.

Pattern coins are very difficult or impossible to resale

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