The Results Are In
shish
Posts: 1,181 ✭✭✭✭✭
Following through on my promise to post the results on an 1871 seated dollar that was discussed in a thread nearly a year ago. The coin was graded MS-61 and was submitted to our host for a downgrade using the reconsideration service.
Those who predicted that it was unlikely to downgrade using the reconsideration service were correct.
The few who thought that it was graded correctly were incorrect.
The coin is now graded AU-55 by our host.
That's all I can say about that.
Liberty Seated and Trade Dollar Specialist
1
Comments
Was MS 61 and now it's AU 55 and you're,,,,,,,,,,,,,happy?
OK......................
Yes, I'm happy with the grade! Although I believe it's an AU-58.
"Those who predicted that it was unlikely to downgrade using this service were correct."
I am confused - wasn't this a downgrade?
Good for you? I wouldn't have done that. Why didn't you sell it and buy a AU58? Its a little too crusty anyway IMO. SMH.
I clarified my original post. To answer your question, it did downgraded, but I was unsuccessful using the reconsideration service.
I never thought anyone would be happy to pay to have their coin downgraded but you seem so? Congats I guess.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
55+ ?
I didn't sell it because it's taken many years to find a naturally toned example grading AU-58 that meets the standard for my grading set.
How much did they pay to make up the difference? Also, do you have the link to the original thread?
$0.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/978953/reconsideration-vs-regrade-whats-the-real-difference/p1
Further proof of grade tightening. (Deflation) So did you crack it and send again?
Yes, but without exception those who have seen the coin disagree with your conclusion. Instead we agree with the graders recent evaluation and the new grade of AU-55 because it is a more accurate description of this coins condition.
Thanks. Why wouldn’t you submit under “Guarantee Resubmission” or “Regrade” if you thought it should downgrade? I just don’t see any upside to getting a lower grade and not getting compensated. Seems like that is the entire point of the grade guarantee.
There’s a $1000 difference between the two grades.
Initially I checked the box for Regrade but PCGS said that the resubmission service was their preferred service to use when seeking a downgrade. The difference in value is $850.
"Seems like that is the entire point of the grade guarantee." I agree!
Let me see if I understand this correctly. PCGS knew you thought it was overgraded, agreed with you, downgraded the coin 3 grades (!) and didn’t pay the difference in price?
Precisely, I accept that our host exercised their right to decline to downgrade the coin under the reconsideration service. But the graders and I disagree with that decision.
Is this coin one of those that go for more $$ in au58 than low ms?
Not usually.
Those who have seen the coin may disagree with my conclusion, but the fact remains. PCGS used to think it was a 61 and now they think it's a 55.
Based on Shish's attached obverse image, I think it is a 55, at best. I say 'at best' because I do not know how to judge the high point shine. But the coin seems to have field wear beyond just a trace amount.
But, I normally avoid doing these GTG games based on flat images. So, your mileage varies with my opinion.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I personally would have just sold the coin in the 61 holder, taking the extra money, and waited until I found one I liked! There are thousands of coins still out there that would suffer the same fate as yours if cracked right now. It's bound to happen after 30 plus years of grading coins, not to mention the recent grade tightening!
61 and 58 are interchangeable grades. The fact that it's a 55 instead of a 58 is due to the recent grade tightening perhaps.
I know there's a bit of cloak-and-dagger going on for some reason, but how about posting the original coin and holder, front and back, and the new coin and holder, front and back.
You ignored my posts stating that this is a coin that I like very much. Your suggestion regarding tight grading does not apply in this case because the MS-61 grade was graded recently not long ago. No cloak-and-dagger but I think it's important to respect our host, even if I don't agree with them. Feel free to view the images in both the original post and this post.
Why in the world did you buy a 61 believing it was a 55? Spend a year trying to get it downgraded. Finally accomplish the task and come here and complain?
I have already explained in detail why I made this purchase.
You call it complaining, I consider it sharing an experience that other numismatists might benefit from. Don't be angry just because your conclusions regarding the grade were not validated by our host.
The more I read this thread, the dumber I get.
You should have submitted it under the guarantee resubmission category. Why won't you post the full slab shots of the original coin?
Should of, could of, would of. The original coin? As I said, feel free to view the images in both the original post and this post.
Can’t see original photo in original post but just playing catch up. Nice AU55/58 glade your set is getting filled with what you are happy with.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
And somehow the OP is happy that it was downgraded and that they lost almost $1000 on the coin. I thought the logger thread was strange but this one certainly takes the cake.
The whole worlds off its rocker, buy Gold™.
BOOMIN!™
Wooooha! Did someone just say it's officially "TACO™" Tuesday????
For some reason he is reluctant to post the full slab shots of the original coin showing the label and grade. They have not been posted here or in the other thread. I want to see that so I know when the original coin was graded.
Unfortunately your consistent negative comments and statements in this and past threads provide no incentive for me to do anything you request.
I just read the original thread. You didn't follow the advice given. Lance told you to send under guarantee re submission, you didn't. I told you it would not go down in grade anyway, it didn't. You crack it, send back in, and now you got whacked with an AU55 grade.
Why not scratch your initials on the coin and see if you can get the graffiti grade next?!
Let me see if I can spell it out for you since you refuse to accept the facts. Our host had multiple opportunities to downgrade this coin. They refused to do so saying that it was graded correctly. The first time it was submitted raw our host graded the coin AU-55, which is very close to the consensus grade of AU-58.
Perhaps happy is a little overstated but I made it clear that "I think it's important to respect our host, even if I don't agree with them." especially on their forum which I enjoy!
I'm so confused. I'm going back to my coffee and maybe it will make sense in a few hours.
They say the truth hurts and I am here to tell it. Sorry you are so sensitive. Your actions on this particular coin are, at minimum, head scratching material. Please enjoy your AU-55 coin. AU-55 coins are selling for $700-$800 and MS-61 coins are selling for $1800-$2300
I would not recommend anyone else here do this. If a coin is overgraded to you and others:
1- DON'T BUY IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.
2- Use guarantee resubmission.
3- If all else fails, sell it. PCGS has THEIR name on the coin, and it is THEIR problem.
this thread - sheesh..............
"If all else fails, sell it. PCGS has THEIR name on the coin, and it is THEIR problem."
Interesting advice, I suppose it makes sense if your top priority is money and your comfortable selling coins that you believe are over-graded. Those are not my goals and I have no intention of changing my view regarding this practice.
In this case I did what I thought was prudent to remedy what I perceived was an over-graded coin. For me the grade on the holder is not the most important thing.
I did two guarantee submissions on a coin with PCGS after cac said it was puttied the first time, then when it came back at the same grade 3 months later, cac said it was "tooled". Second time around PCGS sent me the coin in the problem holder and a check.
I recently got another PCGS $20 coin that looks like it has a putty issue, which would require another long wait in a guarantee submission.
Such foolishness. They have a warranty claim procedure that you did not follow. You then crack the coin and it comes back a 55. There is no proof it is the exact coin or that it was not somehow altered/damaged with your crack job. You won't even show the slabs of the before and after coins!
In fact, you posted about this exact guarantee policy more than 8 years ago and still refused to even try using it on this coin!
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/742063/accurate-and-consistent-grading-is-the-key#latest
You are so ethical and wise, that you will not sell a coin that YOU think was not graded correctly? Give me a break! This thread was started to bash PCGS. I can live with that as long as you are totally transparent, which you are not.
The facts are the facts, it's your problem if you can't handle them. Why you are so concerned about my coin is beyond me. I stand by my posts and I'm sure other members will make up their own minds regarding this coin.
I followed exactly the procedure that our host recommended.
Try reading the entire post instead of picking out one statement.
I'm confident that I'm more ethical than you, but I'm not sure that's setting the bar very high.
I can't help but wonder what motivates your posts.
It's a pretty bold statement to use this 1 example as proof of grade tightening. How many coins does PCGS grade a year? Isn't also possible that PCGS simply made a mistake on this one the first time around and it has since been corrected? Sure if this happened 100 or 1000 documented times, it might be evidence. But cherrypicking out a single example doesn't really show proof of anything.
Just saying.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
We do finally agree on something. The facts are the facts and you "did not" do what PCGS tells you to do. Or what was recommended in the other thread. Or what you even posted about 8 years ago.
I have attached the instructions below and even circled them so that you might finally realize you did not give PCGS a chance to correct your grading problem, if it really was one. Once you crack, all bets are off for so many reasons.
.
.
.
Thus the word "Further". Do you comprehend what that means? Just saying.
One again you are incorrect, our host had several opportunities to correct this grading problem, that's a fact. I've said much more than I had intended. Obvious your unable to let this go and move on so I will solve that problem, have a nice day!
No, I don't comprehend. Please edumacate me.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
If you only would have been named CoinQuant........................the possibilities would have been endless.
It seems it was important enough to get a different grade on the holder, post a thread about it and then complain about some of the responses.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin