Any chance (I'm convinced) this 1892 Columbian is a Proof ? Updated Pics w/edge view
Crazy4Coins
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Just going through a box of random coins that I had stored away and noticed this Columbian has a lot more details than others of the same date and the fields are pretty reflective. Looked a few proofs online and now I'm wondering.
Are there any markers I should be looking for?
Replaced pics with some slightly better and added the two showing die markers
There is also a die line that runs through the AT of STATES that appears to be on Proof examples
Added reeded edge - Reeding on right is coin in question
1
Comments
There are markers, you should be able to search to find them. Not sure which year but one has a die line in the sails.
It looks better than average, but I doubt it. Good luck getting a Columbian to grade anywhere near gem.
Your image looks like it was sharpened or messed with a few times over. Post the straight pic and people will have a better idea of what you have.
Here’s an 1892 NGC MS-64 Prooflike Columbian Half from my collection for comparison purposes.
Top photos depict more of the coin details, while the lower set better depicts the Cameo Contrast.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Did NGC give it the designation?
Better depicts the cameo or over depicts the cameo?
@CascadeChris In reply to your question, yes NGC graded this coin MS-64 Prooflike with the PL Designation.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Didn't mess with pics. Taking them with iPhone.
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@CascadeChris Here’s my other 1892 NCG-64 PL Columbian Half Dollar including the Certified slab photo. This one is a Toned Prooflike example.
I took the upper set of photos after receiving the coin. The lower set are the original Heritage Auction images.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Stuart,
Do your either of your coins have the die markers that I posted ?
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Here's a side by side of another that I have taken at same angle and lighting:
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Looks like circulated to me. Nice coin
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@Crazy4Coins Randy, In reply to your following quoted question, I’m not sure which specific Die Markers you’re referring to in your 2 magnified photos appended below?
I believe that both of my coins are PL Business Strikes, and not likely to be Proofs.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Stack's just auctioned a proof Columbian. NGC Proof 64
That is a very nice Columbian.... I cannot tell if it is proof or not.... I am sure the experts will determine that. Either way, a great coin.... Cheers, RickO
Broke out the camera and got some decent pics. I'm convinced this is a proof. The fields are hard, smooth and reflective. Strike is exceptional compared to business strike coins. Die markers are all there. Lettering and stars are crisp. Too bad it has been mishandled over the years.
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Columbia proof are tricky as they are just normal coins struck with normal dies and normal presses. They where just polished a tad bit more and maybe struck an extra time or so. Proving extra polishing on an issue that is common PL or well struck on a mishandled example will prove futile. Melt is what it is worth but you can Appreciate it more.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I have a pair of colorfully toned Proof Likes in a double holder. Love the issue
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I think you have a PL because of the die polish lines on obverse field to the right of the portrait. It also might be a slider. I would suggest NGC because they will give the PL designation which adds value if they do not feel a proof.
I'll need to check on Monday but as best I can remember, the polish at the base of the sail is not exclusive to Proofs.
Beautiful coins. Love the toning.
The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
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PCGS 64 & 62. The 64 crossed from a 63PL holder
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Documentation does not support production of any Columbian half dollar medal press proof coins. Some shiny pieces were made on a standard press at the request of the Committee, but they are not proofs as that term was used then or now. Also a couple of extras were made and sent to the Director during his Paris trip.
Proof or specimen, i feel most people get the point
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
The market does acknowledge the existence of 100 "proofs".
A friend of mine actually had one that looked even more proof-like than any of the ones here. He was also convinced that it was a proof. PCGS disagreed. I'm not sure what diagnostics they use, but it is unlikely that this coin is a proof as there are far more proof-like Columbians than actual "proofs"..or specimens or whatever you'd like to call them. [For the record, PCGS calls them proofs.]
You know what is so funny to me, all of us go back and forth with the Yes Proof/No Proof argument without ever having actually seen an authentic example in hand. Let me assure you there are folks here who have. Then when someone shows them a coin like an 1887 blazing, Ultra DMPL gold dollar that folks are discussing they can take one look and say NOT EVEN CLOSE. Send the coin in if you think you have a Columbian Proof.
The standard required is very simple and consistent: A proof must match in all respects the normal proof coins made at the Philadelphia Mint within the same time period. To my limited knowledge, no such pieces have ever been described or photographed.
Commercial market information is easily biased by greed, ignorance, emotional promises and other distorting factors.
Stacks just sold one in a PCGS slab. Are you suggesting they are both wrong?
Bigger problem is we are looking at photos without clear die diagnostics.
I have found that the width of a proof's rims along with the curved die polish on them is often the nail in the coffin of the first struck coins of all denominations.
I've seen three proofs and each had the polish line in the base of the sail. So, that is a plus for the OP; BUT IMO, not conclusive. The polish in the space behind the neck is on PR and P/L coins in various forms. Anyway, the diagnostics I use on these coin is microscopic and not seen in Internet images.
I'd send the coin in to be checked.
When holding the coin, it either has very sharp and square reeding or it's beveled. There is rarely anything in between.
I had one with deeply mirrored fields, squared rims, and a HAMMERED strike. It even had 'the look' of a proof, especially side-by-side with a proof Barber half. PCGS, NGC, and ANACS all said no. This was a long time ago and the die marker info wasn't readily available...
Thanks for the info roadrunner. Added the edge pics. I'm still unsure. The reeding on my coin appears to be a bit more squared off on the ends. Not really sure what I am looking for though.
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Sorry, just your bog standard Columbian.
Cheers
Bob
If you are not sure what you are looking for how are you convinced?
Don't mistake PL(or PL'ish or cleaned) for proof. 2 totally different ballgames.
Roger 's knowledge base would indicate to me that TPG grading would be very unlikely to get the PR grade. There is probably not even a PCGS # for the PR grade.
OINK
nice coins!!!
There is a proof details cleaned on Ebay right now for a little over 1K, kinda tempting really.
Now I want some "bog standard" coins.
Bump!
The reeding on the right coin certainly looks more squared off. Did the OP get a final determination on proof or not?