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GotTheBug
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GotTheBug
Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭✭✭
GotTheBug
Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭✭✭
Comments
I see the v looking thing your talking about in the upper part of that circle but it's way to far from the rim to be the vdb your after
HAPPY COLLECTING
There were only 4 die pairs used for the 1909-S V.D.B. Cents. One of them was also used on the 1909-S Issue.
These are the 4:
Match your coin up and see what you got.
There are differing opinions here about "ghost" initials being found on non S V.D.B. Cents.
Hope this helps.
Pete
Re - post of your picture (and 1 of mine)... with different contrast, and what I think I might see.
Effaced die possibly ?
BuffaloIronTail information above is crucial for determination.
Non - S V.D.B picture.
R.I.P Son 1986>2020
Looks like a picteal to me
What's a picteal? Google failed me...
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
The curly-que on the end of a hog?
The potential VDB appears to be nearly touching the rim, which might be a possibility if the coin is in a lower circulated grade. Pictures of the entire obverse and reverse would be helpful to show the overall condition of the coin.
If the VDB is raised on the coin, wouldn't it be sunk on the die? If that's the case, effacing it on the die would be a little more challenging than removing a raised element in the die, since the immediately surrounding field would have to be polished away. A ghost image could easily survive a less than meticulous process of removing the initials.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
The VDB reverse dies were removed from use and replaced by dies from an entirely new hub that was also slightly lower relief. [See Renaissance of American Coinage 1909-1915 for details]
I think I just saw a profile of Lincoln in the clouds yesterday. Or was it a religious figure? And I still say that mark on the reverse of my 1916 dime is a "D".
Snarkiness aside, its nice to get the experts to chime in... always something to learn here.
Very interesting...@BuffaloIronTail.... thanks for the pictures... I have seen some worn 1909 S coins and wondered if the VDB was worn off.... when one wishes hard enough, they 'almost' appear....
Cheers, RickO
I tell folks that if they look at coins under magnification they will eventually see every letter of the alphabet and every numeral from 0 to 9. Additionally, I'll bet there are rules about how things should be done at the mints. So who knows? None of us were around.
BTW, I've seen a 1910-S cent with more of a trace of a VDB than on the OP's coin.
@GotTheBug Let's end this thread quick. POST THE COIN'S OBVERSE PLEASE!
To say I'm always seeing things would be an understatement..........
Pete
I do see the interesting indications that you refer to, and they do make a good item to discuss on the board.
However, realistically speaking, any 1909-S will need clear initials to bring the price. Anything less would be a difficult and unlikely sell for more than 1909-S value.
I read an article many years ago about the 1910-S with a reverse struck with a ground off VDB reverse die. If there was a used, ground off die used in 1910 why not 1909?
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
What do you base this very unrealistic opinion on? Are you a coin dealer? Let's see, a 1909-S VDB with a hardly visible VDB sells for....? LOL. I'll bet all of us here would jump at the chance to pay $70 - $150 for a $500 to $700 coin!!!
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OK then. You obviously know more than I do. We were discussing the OPS coin. So... given your expertise... what is your offer for the above coin? $500? $250? An inquiring mind would like to know.
...you don't know the POWER of eBay, you can sell worn shoes and get twice what you paid for them new!
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
WoodenJefferson, you are absolutely right about that, lol!
You didn't choose to answer my question (Are you a coin dealer?); yet you asked me a question instead.
Let's take the OP's coin. What do you or I know about it. NOTHING! All that is posted is a reverse image with what appears to be a real or imaginary VDB. The OP said it is a 1909-S. IS THE "S" ADDED? Unless you know the owner and saw the coin - we don't know.
1909-S VDB coins are seen with weak and very weak VDB's. Some genuine SVDB's are even missing one or two letters in the designer's initials! What are they worth? IMHO and that of the folks who buy or sell them, more than any 1909-S 1c.
BTW, the inquiring minds I know answer direct questions, don't assume anything, and don't make offers on coins they do not know the grade or authenticity of. So, I'm going to do as you did and not answer your question?
PS I have NO EXPERTISE on the value of a coin that is not available to any beginning collector. That's why I don't place values on them!
"You didn't choose to answer my question (Are you a coin dealer?); yet you asked me a question instead.
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--- I intentionally did not reply to the question because it has absolutely no relevance to the opinion that I stated. And given the tone of your initial response to my post expressing my opinion, I am sure whatever 'credentials' that I would provide in response to your dealer question would then be used to further an argument with me.
--- I do not know why you chose to respond as you did to my initial post, which was my opinion and nothing else. Nothing more I need to say regarding our discussion. Fortunately, I have much better things to do with my time than engage in a pointless exercise.
@tincup said: "I do not know why you chose to respond as you did to my initial post, which was my opinion and nothing else. Nothing more I need to say regarding our discussion. Fortunately, I have much better things to do with my time than engage in a pointless exercise."
Every one has an opinion. I'll leave it at that.
The reason I chose to respond to your original opinion ("However, realistically speaking, any 1909-S will need clear initials to bring the price. Anything less would be a difficult and unlikely sell for more than 1909-S value.") is because in my OPINION, I regard your opinion as uninformed misinformation and wished to correct part of it.
While one of the coins you mention MAY sell at a discount to an informed collector, from what I've seen that price is much higher than a 1909-S.
BTW, there was a time that 1922 Very Weak D cents were bought, sold, and certified all day long by virtually everyone as 1922 Plain coins until researchers and TPGS changed the playing field. Same thing has happened to 1911-D $2 1/2. Decades ago, no one even heard of a "Weak D" coin and discounted its value.
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Looks to me like a Die #4. Given the overall bad quality of the coin, there is still every possibility that it is an S V.D.B.
I personally think it is.
The obverse picture tells a lot about why the initials are so weak. Thanks for posting it.
Pete