Keep in mind that this dealer had TWO opportunities to examine this coin. As an expert he should have been able to spot problems with the coin or at least had contingencies built into the sale. such as the coin achieving a certain grade at TPG companies, if he had any concerns.
As a novice you trusted the word of this dealer an accepted his (possibly low ball) price. All parties left satisfied. There is no obligation to return any of the money and I would find a new dealer to sell to in the future. This dealer will try to make up his losses of any future dealings with you.
Best of luck to you
Joe
Successful BST transactions with lordmarcovan, Moldnut, erwindoc
@EagleEye said:
First off, the dealer offered $2200 for a $7,000 coin. There is no way he didn't know it was real before offering anything. The OP identified the quality as XF from the grading chart posted. He offered G money. I think the dealer is such a low-life for offering so little to begin with. People like that would likely switch your original coin with an altered one they had in their safe to offer back as a way to capitalize further. Stay away.
Lastly, the dealer offered $2200 for an altered coin worth $20 or less.
@TwoSides2aCoin said:
So, in the end, you flipped a $15 coin for $2200. Nice one, mate.
That's gotta be worth a you really suck award, no? In retrospect the seller should have taken the dealer's advice from the first visit and had it submitted. But alas it wasn't done.
If the coin was an 1893 Philly, it's still worth $170 or so in G4. Not exactly worthless. I'm not a dealer, but if I were, I would have suggested getting the coin graded and returning when the coin comes back graded. Or the dealer could offer to send it in for grading and then deal with the submitter based on what they really know about the coin. I agree with those who say you do not owe him anything. If your conscience bothers you, and it probably would me, I'd stop by and ask to see the coin. If you can identify it as the same coin, I would offer to split it with him. The "switch" idea on the dealers part is not without merit, BUT people do come in saying they are ignorant about coins and they are the ones trying to pull a fast one.
Pete
"Ain't None of Them play like him (Bix Beiderbecke) Yet." Louis Armstrong
If the coin really does have EF sharpness with no problems, the dealer probably figured he'd pull a fast one and buy a $7,000 coin for $2,200. The trouble was he didn't have the expertise to spot an added mint mark coin. Shame on him! It's his loss due to greed and lack of expertise. For him it should be lesson learned in the school of hard knocks.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
So when I am presented with Key date coins, or otherwise what can be high-value coins the only fair thing to do is send the coin in for grading with an agreement to buy them at an agreed to price should the coin come back graded or details.
Barring that, if I am offered a coin and I am unsure of it, I say no thanks. If I do buy it, it is all on me. Also, if I sell a bad coin, it is still all on me no matter how long you have owned it. That's the warranty implied by being a dealer. Anything else is amateur.
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
@AMRC said:
So when I am presented with Key date coins, or otherwise what can be high-value coins the only fair thing to do is send the coin in for grading with an agreement to buy them at an agreed to price should the coin come back graded or details.
Barring that, if I am offered a coin and I am unsure of it, I say no thanks. If I do buy it, it is all on me. Also, if I sell a bad coin, it is still all on me no matter how long you have owned it. That's the warranty implied by being a dealer. Anything else is amateur.
I think this dealer wanted all the profit and none of the risk and wound up with neither .
@ChetLemon said:
No doubt a learning experience for him, but still the general consensus here that this is "his loss" does not sit well with me. Hopefully we can come to an ethical compromise.
For a dealer to make a $2,200 mistake on a added mint mark on a 1893 S is bone head or there is some thing else going on. On the 1893 S there is only one obverse die used and the die markers are well known as the coin is often counterfeited. If the fake coin was a 1893 P, the date position and raised 3 does not match perfect to a 1893 S and the die markers of the rabbit ears and slash on T will not be on coin.
Before you make any compromise with the dealer take some photos of the coin's obverse and reverse and post on forum. It would be cool if you could get a close up photo of LIBERTY that would show the die marker area..
unfortunately the dealer made a professional educated error. You as a layman sold the coin to him after his professional examination of the item. You do not owe the dealer anything and are not in any respect responsible you represented the coin as it was and unknown to you. He seen it and bought it based all known information and his professional opinion. Every one makes mistakes he made a 2200 dollar one it happens and is his fault in this case.
Like they say, do unto others as they have done unto you. If you think the offer was fair for a real coin, then I think that you should give him his money back. Not because you have to, but because it's the right thing to do. If the offer was obnoxiously low, the dealer should get what he deserves, i.e., nothing.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I did not read all the post but will make this statement
I have handled this two ways
I paid up front and stated if it is not real I want paid back
The second I agreed to pay after the coin came beck graded
What happened in the first case came back bad and I never got my money back
The second my customer paid for the grading fee and I paid the agreed price.
He was offered the grading fee and he said no because he learned so much and enjoyed the way we handled everything.
I did read someone saying to return $1100.00
Sounds like a solution to me.
Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211
@ChetLemon said:
No doubt a learning experience for him, but still the general consensus here that this is "his loss" does not sit well with me. Hopefully we can come to an ethical compromise.
Strange statement considering you asked us our thoughts. Are you actually the dealer rather than the seller?
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
@ChetLemon said:
No doubt a learning experience for him, but still the general consensus here that this is "his loss" does not sit well with me. Hopefully we can come to an ethical compromise.
Strange statement considering you asked us our thoughts. Are you actually the dealer rather than the seller?
Seems to me that you've misread ChetLemon's comment. He's just saying that he's uncomfortable playing hardball in this situation.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Based on what I read in the o.p., the dealer had ample time to examine the coin, and made an offer that was accepted. The 93-s is frequently faked, the diagnostics of a genuine one are well known. Too bad he made the choice he did, but I don't think ChetLemon owes him anything.
For me it's a karma issue at this point. There will be no financial reimbursement, but I do feel I should make this right considering I was not out to deceive him and now he's presumably out 2200. We have been communicating and I will be stopping in to document the coin and any paperwork he received with it. He admits this was his error. My intent, based on advice here, is to get any other coins graded. And I don't feel the dealer was out to deceive me, for what that's worth.
@ChetLemon said:
And I don't feel the dealer was out to deceive me, for what that's worth.
Based on everything you've said so far -- you're wrong, sorry. He was out to deceive you.
If you do go in to document the coin, get a picture of it and post a picture of it here. The consensus is that you had a coin worth $7,000+. For him to give you $2,200 for a $7,000 coin, that's not good. A picture will let the rest of us see if it really would have been a $7,000 coin (if real), and whether his $2,200 offer was anywhere near professional on his part.
@ChetLemon said:
And I don't feel the dealer was out to deceive me, for what that's worth.
Based on everything you've said so far -- you're wrong, sorry. He was out to deceive you.
If you do go in to document the coin, get a picture of it and post a picture of it here. The consensus is that you had a coin worth $7,000+. For him to give you $2,200 for a $7,000 coin, that's not good. A picture will let the rest of us see if it really would have been a $7,000 coin (if real), and whether his $2,200 offer was anywhere near professional on his part.
I have the feeling you aren't going to see that photo. The story doesn't seem as straight forward as it did before.
"May the silver waves that bear you heavenward be filled with love’s whisperings"
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Very simple take the letter and throw it in the trash! Problem solved. If he sends another letter refuse the letter and send it back! I doubt he will take any further action. Who knows maybe he will sue you and then let the judge decide maybe a jury trial. Just make we are on the jury so we can side with you.
In my day I've seen a few weird deals unbuttoned, personally once and seen a few times with other close fellow coin dealers and collectors. Just because a deal happened doesn't always mean its permanent.
With that said, the money is usually made before it gets graded and when the dice don't fall your way theres usually no take backsies.....
@ChetLemon said:
And I don't feel the dealer was out to deceive me, for what that's worth.
Based on everything you've said so far -- you're wrong, sorry. He was out to deceive you.
If you do go in to document the coin, get a picture of it and post a picture of it here. The consensus is that you had a coin worth $7,000+. For him to give you $2,200 for a $7,000 coin, that's not good. A picture will let the rest of us see if it really would have been a $7,000 coin (if real), and whether his $2,200 offer was anywhere near professional on his part.
Agreed. Also, you said you sold him some other stuff.....depending on what he paid you for that stuff, going by his offer on this one, he may have already broke even PLUS
If you have stated things honestly, then it is very likely he is a dealer who tried to rip you, and likely rips as an ongoing thing. So what if he has a nice personality that gets you to trust him.....even been to a car dealership? You want to trust them? Especially when they finally agree on a price and tell you they aren't making any money (and yet, they are still in business, wearing nice suits, etc).
If he has been a dealer for any amount of time, and knows about PCGS and submissions, he knew he had a couple of ways of doing things and the way he did it was the way for the MOST profit FOR him. He tried it, it didn't work.
The dealer was hoping to make big profit with $2200 purchase and he would NOT have share it with you if it turned up his way; so NO you are not refunding his money. He should know better being in field of scouting for steal....
Keep the money and do not return to him.
@SeattleSlammer said:
Without reading all the replies here, I’ll just add that the dealer has some real gall asking YOU to do the right thing.
Might help to read all the replies.
From the OP in his first post.
"Fast forward to a week ago, where I receive a letter in the mail from that dealer. He had written to let me know that he sent the Morgan to PCGS for grading, and they had determined it has an altered mint mark and "is therefore nearly worthless." The dealer is "hoping I do the right thing and return the $2200." "
@Gluggo said:
Very simple take the letter and throw it in the trash! Problem solved. If he sends another letter refuse the letter and send it back! I doubt he will take any further action. Who knows maybe he will sue you and then let the judge decide maybe a jury trial. Just make we are on the jury so we can side with you.
By the way, you can refuse ANY piece of mail...........be it letter or package.
Long as you don't open it.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
@SeattleSlammer said:
Without reading all the replies here, I’ll just add that the dealer has some real gall asking YOU to do the right thing.
Might help to read all the replies.
From the OP in his first post.
"Fast forward to a week ago, where I receive a letter in the mail from that dealer. He had written to let me know that he sent the Morgan to PCGS for grading, and they had determined it has an altered mint mark and "is therefore nearly worthless." The dealer is "hoping I do the right thing and return the $2200." "
I know what the post says. But I think what the "right thing" is depends on the entire situation. For example, would the seller expect that if the dealer got a "win" from PCGS that there would suddenly be a check in the mailbox? I mean, the dealer COULD do the "right thing" and share the windfall, but a sale is a contract. If no conditions are established at the time of sale, there is no obligation on the part of either party to revisit the sale later.
So, for example, sometimes a dealer will make a contingent purchase: price contingent on TPG. In that case, the terms of the sale are open until the TPG results are in. If there was no contingency, the sale is final. Legally. Morally? That's a bit trickier.
But I don't think the later poster can comment on the "right thing" without reading the full explanation (from one side) of what actually transpired. Which includes the fact that the purchase price was rather low, suggesting the dealer was either a thief or had included a "risk premium".
Does he have proof the original coin was sent in and bodybagged? What is the PCGS order number? Was it a submission that was shared so we all can see it?
indecently if the coin was an XF and came back in a regular holder and retail at 9k I doubt the dealer would call you and say "I owe you money". He bought an item and took the risk based on his experience and he would of been rewarded for the risk very well.
I'm normally quite pro-dealer. But in this case the dealer is asking you to pay for his mistake. Doesn't seem right. How can you have a fair market when a dealer can undo all their mistakes?
Let's look at this another way - suppose you deposit a C-note at the bank and they write you up a deposit receipt for $100. Bank and/or Secret Service calls you up later and says it was a fake note and your deposit is voided. Would you say they did the wrong thing?
I'm just going to reiterate the prevailing opinion that OP owes the dealer nothing. Dealer offers 30% of retail on a coin that could be worth $7k if it grades and then when it doesn't, wants to get his money back... lol. I would run away from that dealer and never talk to him again.
@SeattleSlammer said:
Without reading all the replies here, I’ll just add that the dealer has some real gall asking YOU to do the right thing.
Might help to read all the replies.
From the OP in his first post.
"Fast forward to a week ago, where I receive a letter in the mail from that dealer. He had written to let me know that he sent the Morgan to PCGS for grading, and they had determined it has an altered mint mark and "is therefore nearly worthless." The dealer is "hoping I do the right thing and return the $2200." "
I know what the post says. But I think what the "right thing" is depends on the entire situation. For example, would the seller expect that if the dealer got a "win" from PCGS that there would suddenly be a check in the mailbox? I mean, the dealer COULD do the "right thing" and share the windfall, but a sale is a contract. If no conditions are established at the time of sale, there is no obligation on the part of either party to revisit the sale later.
So, for example, sometimes a dealer will make a contingent purchase: price contingent on TPG. In that case, the terms of the sale are open until the TPG results are in. If there was no contingency, the sale is final. Legally. Morally? That's a bit trickier.
But I don't think the later poster can comment on the "right thing" without reading the full explanation (from one side) of what actually transpired. Which includes the fact that the purchase price was rather low, suggesting the dealer was either a thief or had included a "risk premium".
In my ever humble opinion.
Since there are no pics and we have the recollection of someone who can't grade coins that the grade was about xf who is to say that the offer was low.
@ChetLemon said:
And I don't feel the dealer was out to deceive me, for what that's worth.
Based on everything you've said so far -- you're wrong, sorry. He was out to deceive you.
If you do go in to document the coin, get a picture of it and post a picture of it here. The consensus is that you had a coin worth $7,000+. For him to give you $2,200 for a $7,000 coin, that's not good. A picture will let the rest of us see if it really would have been a $7,000 coin (if real), and whether his $2,200 offer was anywhere near professional on his part.
Since you are the one that started this thread, YES.....we would like to see pics of the coin. I can understand where you would feel bad because of this situation. If you didn't and just laughed it away, you wouldn't be here now.
If you can remember what else you sold, posting it here would also help in trying to determine if the dealer was a stand up person or a schlock.
I think most here would agree with me.
Good luck to you.
Pete
"I tell them there's no problems.....only solutions" - John Lennon
After reading all replies in the thread, I am of the opinion that in any investigation of the truth there is little that can be decided upon when only one side of the story is known. There are many great responses but this is where we are at now, in my opinion:
@ChetLemon said:
And I don't feel the dealer was out to deceive me, for what that's worth.
Based on everything you've said so far -- you're wrong, sorry. He was out to deceive you.
If you do go in to document the coin, get a picture of it and post a picture of it here. The consensus is that you had a coin worth $7,000+. For him to give you $2,200 for a $7,000 coin, that's not good. A picture will let the rest of us see if it really would have been a $7,000 coin (if real), and whether his $2,200 offer was anywhere near professional on his part.
I have the feeling you aren't going to see that photo. The story doesn't seem as straight forward as it did before.
@Coinosaurus said:
I'm normally quite pro-dealer. But in this case the dealer is asking you to pay for his mistake. Doesn't seem right. How can you have a fair market when a dealer can undo all their mistakes?
Let's look at this another way - suppose you deposit a C-note at the bank and they write you up a deposit receipt for $100. Bank and/or Secret Service calls you up later and says it was a fake note and your deposit is voided. Would you say they did the wrong thing?
Not the same.
First, we do not know the real situation. No pics of the disputed item, and no authority pronouncing judgment.
Second, we have a one-sided presentation from the OP (I am not questioning the OP's personal ethics, just his industry expertise and judgment).
Third, the item is not a fake; it has an added MM which is ethically bad but legally different than counterfeiting money.
Fourth, let us consider the possibility that the coin has been cleaned and is also of a lower details grade than EF. If a true 93-S were "cleaned VF details", then how much should the dealer have offered? On eBay, they were being offered around 3K to $3.5K. eBay BIN prices are always on the extremely optimistic side.
@jedm said:
After reading all replies in the thread, I am of the opinion that in any investigation of the truth there is little that can be decided upon when only one side of the story is known. There are many great responses but this is where we are at now, in my opinion:
I have the feeling you aren't going to see that photo. The story doesn't seem as straight forward as it did before.
Comments
Keep in mind that this dealer had TWO opportunities to examine this coin. As an expert he should have been able to spot problems with the coin or at least had contingencies built into the sale. such as the coin achieving a certain grade at TPG companies, if he had any concerns.
As a novice you trusted the word of this dealer an accepted his (possibly low ball) price. All parties left satisfied. There is no obligation to return any of the money and I would find a new dealer to sell to in the future. This dealer will try to make up his losses of any future dealings with you.
Best of luck to you
Joe
Successful BST transactions with lordmarcovan, Moldnut, erwindoc
So, in the end, you flipped a $15 coin for $2200. Nice one, mate.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Lastly, the dealer offered $2200 for an altered coin worth $20 or less.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I wonder if anyone contacted the dealer, how much he/she would sell the coin for right now?
a) Less than $50
b) $2300
c) North of $5000
That's gotta be worth a you really suck award, no? In retrospect the seller should have taken the dealer's advice from the first visit and had it submitted. But alas it wasn't done.
If the coin was an 1893 Philly, it's still worth $170 or so in G4. Not exactly worthless. I'm not a dealer, but if I were, I would have suggested getting the coin graded and returning when the coin comes back graded. Or the dealer could offer to send it in for grading and then deal with the submitter based on what they really know about the coin. I agree with those who say you do not owe him anything. If your conscience bothers you, and it probably would me, I'd stop by and ask to see the coin. If you can identify it as the same coin, I would offer to split it with him. The "switch" idea on the dealers part is not without merit, BUT people do come in saying they are ignorant about coins and they are the ones trying to pull a fast one.
Pete
Louis Armstrong
If the coin really does have EF sharpness with no problems, the dealer probably figured he'd pull a fast one and buy a $7,000 coin for $2,200. The trouble was he didn't have the expertise to spot an added mint mark coin. Shame on him! It's his loss due to greed and lack of expertise. For him it should be lesson learned in the school of hard knocks.
So when I am presented with Key date coins, or otherwise what can be high-value coins the only fair thing to do is send the coin in for grading with an agreement to buy them at an agreed to price should the coin come back graded or details.
Barring that, if I am offered a coin and I am unsure of it, I say no thanks. If I do buy it, it is all on me. Also, if I sell a bad coin, it is still all on me no matter how long you have owned it. That's the warranty implied by being a dealer. Anything else is amateur.
I think this dealer wanted all the profit and none of the risk and wound up with neither .
For a dealer to make a $2,200 mistake on a added mint mark on a 1893 S is bone head or there is some thing else going on. On the 1893 S there is only one obverse die used and the die markers are well known as the coin is often counterfeited. If the fake coin was a 1893 P, the date position and raised 3 does not match perfect to a 1893 S and the die markers of the rabbit ears and slash on T will not be on coin.
Before you make any compromise with the dealer take some photos of the coin's obverse and reverse and post on forum. It would be cool if you could get a close up photo of LIBERTY that would show the die marker area..
unfortunately the dealer made a professional educated error. You as a layman sold the coin to him after his professional examination of the item. You do not owe the dealer anything and are not in any respect responsible you represented the coin as it was and unknown to you. He seen it and bought it based all known information and his professional opinion. Every one makes mistakes he made a 2200 dollar one it happens and is his fault in this case.
Just adding my voice to the choir of "you owe nothing".
For a key item like this, the dealer should have worked with you to get it submitted for grading and made an offer based on the grade assigned.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Instagram: 8 Reales Numis
Like they say, do unto others as they have done unto you. If you think the offer was fair for a real coin, then I think that you should give him his money back. Not because you have to, but because it's the right thing to do. If the offer was obnoxiously low, the dealer should get what he deserves, i.e., nothing.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
He wanted to buy it and for the seller to not know what it was actually worth.
This. Don't agree to a price until AFTER the coin is graded.
I did not read all the post but will make this statement
I have handled this two ways
I paid up front and stated if it is not real I want paid back
The second I agreed to pay after the coin came beck graded
What happened in the first case came back bad and I never got my money back
The second my customer paid for the grading fee and I paid the agreed price.
He was offered the grading fee and he said no because he learned so much and enjoyed the way we handled everything.
I did read someone saying to return $1100.00
Sounds like a solution to me.
Strange statement considering you asked us our thoughts. Are you actually the dealer rather than the seller?
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Seems to me that you've misread ChetLemon's comment. He's just saying that he's uncomfortable playing hardball in this situation.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Based on what I read in the o.p., the dealer had ample time to examine the coin, and made an offer that was accepted. The 93-s is frequently faked, the diagnostics of a genuine one are well known. Too bad he made the choice he did, but I don't think ChetLemon owes him anything.
For me it's a karma issue at this point. There will be no financial reimbursement, but I do feel I should make this right considering I was not out to deceive him and now he's presumably out 2200. We have been communicating and I will be stopping in to document the coin and any paperwork he received with it. He admits this was his error. My intent, based on advice here, is to get any other coins graded. And I don't feel the dealer was out to deceive me, for what that's worth.
Based on everything you've said so far -- you're wrong, sorry. He was out to deceive you.
If you do go in to document the coin, get a picture of it and post a picture of it here. The consensus is that you had a coin worth $7,000+. For him to give you $2,200 for a $7,000 coin, that's not good. A picture will let the rest of us see if it really would have been a $7,000 coin (if real), and whether his $2,200 offer was anywhere near professional on his part.
I have the feeling you aren't going to see that photo. The story doesn't seem as straight forward as it did before.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
Very simple take the letter and throw it in the trash! Problem solved. If he sends another letter refuse the letter and send it back! I doubt he will take any further action. Who knows maybe he will sue you and then let the judge decide maybe a jury trial. Just make we are on the jury so we can side with you.
I would like to know what other coins he bought from you and for how much?
Thanks
Martin
Not making specific comments on this deal, but
In my day I've seen a few weird deals unbuttoned, personally once and seen a few times with other close fellow coin dealers and collectors. Just because a deal happened doesn't always mean its permanent.
With that said, the money is usually made before it gets graded and when the dice don't fall your way theres usually no take backsies.....
Agreed. Also, you said you sold him some other stuff.....depending on what he paid you for that stuff, going by his offer on this one, he may have already broke even PLUS
If you have stated things honestly, then it is very likely he is a dealer who tried to rip you, and likely rips as an ongoing thing. So what if he has a nice personality that gets you to trust him.....even been to a car dealership? You want to trust them? Especially when they finally agree on a price and tell you they aren't making any money (and yet, they are still in business, wearing nice suits, etc).
If he has been a dealer for any amount of time, and knows about PCGS and submissions, he knew he had a couple of ways of doing things and the way he did it was the way for the MOST profit FOR him. He tried it, it didn't work.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Without reading all the replies here, I’ll just add that the dealer has some real gall asking YOU to do the right thing.
The dealer was hoping to make big profit with $2200 purchase and he would NOT have share it with you if it turned up his way; so NO you are not refunding his money. He should know better being in field of scouting for steal....
Keep the money and do not return to him.
Might help to read all the replies.
From the OP in his first post.
"Fast forward to a week ago, where I receive a letter in the mail from that dealer. He had written to let me know that he sent the Morgan to PCGS for grading, and they had determined it has an altered mint mark and "is therefore nearly worthless." The dealer is "hoping I do the right thing and return the $2200." "
It takes balls just putting our views here. I think it's like a game of "Kill the guy who gets it "
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
By the way, you can refuse ANY piece of mail...........be it letter or package.
Long as you don't open it.
Pete
I know what the post says. But I think what the "right thing" is depends on the entire situation. For example, would the seller expect that if the dealer got a "win" from PCGS that there would suddenly be a check in the mailbox? I mean, the dealer COULD do the "right thing" and share the windfall, but a sale is a contract. If no conditions are established at the time of sale, there is no obligation on the part of either party to revisit the sale later.
So, for example, sometimes a dealer will make a contingent purchase: price contingent on TPG. In that case, the terms of the sale are open until the TPG results are in. If there was no contingency, the sale is final. Legally. Morally? That's a bit trickier.
But I don't think the later poster can comment on the "right thing" without reading the full explanation (from one side) of what actually transpired. Which includes the fact that the purchase price was rather low, suggesting the dealer was either a thief or had included a "risk premium".
In my ever humble opinion.
You could send him a link to this thread then ask him how much you should pay him back.
Does he have proof the original coin was sent in and bodybagged? What is the PCGS order number? Was it a submission that was shared so we all can see it?
indecently if the coin was an XF and came back in a regular holder and retail at 9k I doubt the dealer would call you and say "I owe you money". He bought an item and took the risk based on his experience and he would of been rewarded for the risk very well.
TO Op you state No Financial Reibursement so that means **No money to dealer yes.*
Also you state the dealer was not out to decieve you. Beiing offerered 2200 for something you stated condtion wise $7000 or so a fair offer?
Dont waste any time with guy if for some reason your curious about the coin send somebody else into the store and see if its thier.
Lastily does PCGS calls a coin counterfeit do they issue a number to check online with picture.
Wonder what the dealer is going to do with coin in question?
Ah, but he DID come to the right conclusion even without reading all the replies
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I'm normally quite pro-dealer. But in this case the dealer is asking you to pay for his mistake. Doesn't seem right. How can you have a fair market when a dealer can undo all their mistakes?
Let's look at this another way - suppose you deposit a C-note at the bank and they write you up a deposit receipt for $100. Bank and/or Secret Service calls you up later and says it was a fake note and your deposit is voided. Would you say they did the wrong thing?
I'm just going to reiterate the prevailing opinion that OP owes the dealer nothing. Dealer offers 30% of retail on a coin that could be worth $7k if it grades and then when it doesn't, wants to get his money back... lol. I would run away from that dealer and never talk to him again.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
He’s buying a soldering gun at Home Depot so he can safely remove the added Mint mark. (I’m speculating)
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Since there are no pics and we have the recollection of someone who can't grade coins that the grade was about xf who is to say that the offer was low.
With the stated value of $7000.00 what would of been a fair offer for the coin in question,providing it was genuine.
Speculative...but here are a few screen shots from Ebay today
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Since you are the one that started this thread, YES.....we would like to see pics of the coin. I can understand where you would feel bad because of this situation. If you didn't and just laughed it away, you wouldn't be here now.
If you can remember what else you sold, posting it here would also help in trying to determine if the dealer was a stand up person or a schlock.
I think most here would agree with me.
Good luck to you.
Pete
After reading all replies in the thread, I am of the opinion that in any investigation of the truth there is little that can be decided upon when only one side of the story is known. There are many great responses but this is where we are at now, in my opinion:
ChetLemon, Are you the dealer?
Wisdom has been chasing you but, you've always been faster
Not the same.
First, we do not know the real situation. No pics of the disputed item, and no authority pronouncing judgment.
Second, we have a one-sided presentation from the OP (I am not questioning the OP's personal ethics, just his industry expertise and judgment).
Third, the item is not a fake; it has an added MM which is ethically bad but legally different than counterfeiting money.
Fourth, let us consider the possibility that the coin has been cleaned and is also of a lower details grade than EF. If a true 93-S were "cleaned VF details", then how much should the dealer have offered? On eBay, they were being offered around 3K to $3.5K. eBay BIN prices are always on the extremely optimistic side.
I agree with this.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com