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Proof trade dollars with chopmarks?

Does anyone know if they exist / have examples of some?

Thanks!

Comments

  • TLeverageTLeverage Posts: 259 ✭✭✭

    I have never seen an example myself, nor have I spoken with anyone who wholeheartedly believes that one exists. A print ad was placed by 'The Coin Depot' out of Greenville, SC in February 2006, listing an 1879-dated Trade Dollar with chops for $899.50. The coin was claimed to be sold, but I haven't seen it resurface since.

  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,521 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have seen some 76p 4 finger coins that might have been proof with chops. The thing about it is by the time proof only dates came out, the coins were flooding back into the country and not out. This limited the chances for the coins to make it into the oriental markets. On top of that not many P mint of any sort made it out west and then shipped and chopped.

    I suspect there are a few 1873-77 proofs that are chopped but are circulated past the point of easily identifying them.

  • BillDugan1959BillDugan1959 Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭

    If they exist, they (the chops) are phoney baloneys from the 1950s or 1960s.

    The law of large numbers argues against this scenario.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    We have documents showing that some proof Trade dollars were put into circulation. It's possible one or more ended up in export, chopped, hacked, mutilated and shipped back.

  • TLeverageTLeverage Posts: 259 ✭✭✭

    @RogerB said:
    We have documents showing that some proof Trade dollars were put into circulation. It's possible one or more ended up in export, chopped, hacked, mutilated and shipped back.

    Do we have any indications of what year(s), mints, and quantities we have documentation for?

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2018 9:42PM

    The thread "Do you have any circulated proofs in your collection?" shows proof from one year that were put into circulation. I'll look at my other files and see if I can give you more dates.

    Looks like 1875 max of 68; 1876 max of 65; 1877 max of 31; 1878 94; 1879 max of 53. I do not have data for proof Trade dollars possibly put into circulation for other years. Actual pieces put into circulation except for 1878 are probably lower because some of these were sold to collectors in January of the following year or used as replacements for damaged/lost pieces.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 4, 2018 9:57PM

    The US Mint proof coin list from 1939 shows 710 1877 Trade dollars. The 1887 Director's Report (p.237) says 510 (Feb, Oct, Dec) were made and the daily coinage journal (NARA-CP RG-104 Entry 271 vol.1) also shows 510 proof Trade dollars for the same months. However, the journals prior to about 1882 are not definitive and sometimes have conflicting dates of production or omit pieces are are shown in other sources.

    I really doubt it matters whether 510 or 710 were made - the number of survivors is what matters.

  • TLeverageTLeverage Posts: 259 ✭✭✭

    @afford said:
    The 1877, 0f the 510-710 minted approx 100+ were put into circulation because they didn't sell. There seems to be a question how many were minted. Mint records say 510 but Breen & PCGS believe it is 710 for some reason.

    Interesting. It would be neat to track down that documentation to find the exact number. I've got a PL 1877-P bearing a single chop, I'll have to look up the die characteristics for a Proof of the same year. As @Crypto notes, Philadelphia remains the scarcest mint to locate chopped pieces from, but it might be worthwhile to check what pieces do exist for any indicators that one or two were Proof strikes.

    @RogerB, it's also interesting that you note a possibility of an 1879-dated piece entering circulation, lending potential credence to the missing 'Coin Depot' specimen. But without the piece in hand, I'm afraid that remains hearsay.

    And duh, I asked what mints. They would only be from Philly.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2018 7:21AM

    Here's what I have for 1877 Trade dollars.

    Also, new Trade dollar hubs were reported on the July 7, 1877 die report for FY 1877. These would have been for CY 1877.

  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Does @tradedollarnut have any input on this?

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
  • oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 12,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @afford said:

    @oih82w8 said:
    Does @tradedollarnut have any input on this?

    He is an expert in buying , not in research.

    You never know...he may have seen one.

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 5, 2018 1:02PM

    Good question. The numbers don't total properly....This is but one of the problems faced with research.

    Here's data from another page of the same report, but with more detail:

    Add to this - the Daily delivery Journal records 400 TD proofs made on Feb 13, 1877, not the 600 recorded on the report pages.

  • RogerBRogerB Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's a summary of Trade dollar proofs. I hope this does not hog excessive space. (If members feel it is too long, say so and I'll remove the pages.)





  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It would be quite a treasure to find one..... I know I do not have any...surely a concerted effort by the thousands on people on this forum should be able to surface one if it exists.....Cheers, RickO

  • DDRDDR Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have heard they exist, but I have never seen one myself. And I have seen a lot of chopmarked Trade Dollars.

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