Questions from a non Collector. Silver Eagles

2dueces · February 1, 2018 9:16AM

I'm a card guy. Long time collector and member here. First post on this side. I was looking for a change of pace. Not really worried about rising value but obviously would like them to at least hold value.
I really like the looks of the First Strike American Silver Eagle series. I'd like them to run consistent thought the years. My questions,
1. Which grading company? NSG or PCGS? I'm going to start and continue with just one company in MS70 quality.
2. I see plain. I see W's and I see S. Again if I pick S I'm going to run with it through the years. I know there is a price difference
but I'm not too worried about that. Any advantages?

So any advice would be appreciated. I've been reading this board for a few months and I am NOT the Omega man.

jmlanzaf · February 1, 2018 9:30AM

LOL.

Okay, Mr. Alpha Man

I assume you mean NGC or PCGS. Currently, PCGS MS70's have higher value than NGC. Of course, that means they cost more. It may mean they sell for more later. But the real issue is % increase, so it is hard to argue (without a crystal ball) which one will have more value. Some people actually choose based on which slab design or label they like best. I would suggest that whichever one you prefer is fine.
I would look less at the specific mint mark and more at the strike type. You don't necessarily have every mint mark available for every year in every strike type. Usually, it's more an issue of whether you prefer business strikes or proofs. Within either series, you can decide whether you want a single mint mark or you can ignore the mint mark. The only series you're going to be able to get with a uniform mint mark for all coins is the no mint mark (philadelphia) uncirculated coins.

Have fun! There's no wrong way to do it, if you choose the way it makes you happy.

291fifth · February 1, 2018 9:36AM

Save your money. They are just common bullion, virtually all of which come with very high grades. Don't pay any premium for special labels. (This is my own opinion which I am sure some on the board will disagree with.)

Paradisefound · February 1, 2018 9:36AM

Your first advantage is that you are not worry about the price; which is a very good start
I am new on ASE too and have a tendency of wanting everything there are to collect.
Exercise some discipline and be selective; learn along the way and let the Forum members render their expertise.
Personally I started with the low minted / hard / harder dates first.
Have fun and post your 1st coin

jmlanzaf · February 1, 2018 9:40AM

@291fifth said:
Save your money. They are just common bullion, virtually all of which come with very high grades. Don't pay any premium for special labels. (This is my own opinion which I am sure some on the board will disagree with.)

I somewhat agree. If I were collecting the series, I would probably buy them in 69 holders. They trade barely above melt and I defy any amateur and most professionals to be able to distinguish between them. I might also just collect them raw as I'm not really a slab guy. But if you do want them in slabs, the 69s are really a bargain. IMHO

1630Boston · February 1, 2018 9:49AM

@2dueces
Welcome to the coin side

KellenCoin · February 1, 2018 9:53AM

You can collect anything you want, but I recommend not doing the First Strike coins. IMO, they are not worth it.

Swampboy · February 1, 2018 10:38AM

When I first started collecting avidly over 10 years ago i was drawn to 70s.
I made one MS70 ASE and thought I hit a jackpot.
I have maybe 6 or so slabbed ASEs but I've had more fun and I get more pleasure out of my circ ASE Dansco album. When I get the '18 it will finally be complete.

69 or 70?
If you can't tell the diff why pay up.
When you go to sell no one else is likely to either.

JMHO and have Fun!!!

GRANDAM · February 1, 2018 11:21AM

The biggest problem that should concern you with Silver Eagles is milk spotting.

Buy a coin and it spots and you have a piece of silver bullion, all premium is lost.

2dueces · February 1, 2018 11:42AM

Some great advice. I think I will follow all of it. I like the slabs just because. No real rhyme or reason, maybe easier for my daughters in my estate? Being a card guy I know the minute difference between a PSA 10 and a PSA 9. To the eye, none. Price wise 10-100 x's different. So I think the best advice I see I will go with PCGS MS69's. After all it's really for my pleasure. Something to have fun with. I'll stay away from special labels and just go up the ladder starting at 1987 and pick up 3 years a month. Maybe later if I like it pick up W,s and S,s etc. Great group guys and thanks

COCollector · February 1, 2018 11:43AM

@2dueces said:
I see plain. I see W's and I see S. Again if I pick S I'm going to run with it through the years. I know there is a price difference
but I'm not too worried about that. Any advantages?

Mintage can seriously affect price. For example, only 75,000 Proof American Silver Eagles (ASEs) were produced at the San Francisco Mint ("S" mint mark).

The Result: 2017-S Proof American Silver Eagle Commanding Price Premiums

Price is also affected by desireability: If few people want a particular coin (i.e., low demand), well, you can guess what happens to the price. It's supply & demand.

Did You Know: Unlike numismatic coins, Bullion grades are not guaranteed. That's because bullion can developing milk spots months or years after they're graded.

Spotting doesn't always occur -- there are no statistics I'm aware of. But when it happens, it can hurt your coin's grade and value.

That is, MS70 bullion are MS70 at the time they're graded -- but later, who knows? It's a gamble with bullion. And there's often a big price difference between MS70 and MS69.

Of course, that means you'll want to carefully inspect any bullion coin in an MS70 slab (plastic holder).

My Advice: Research first and start with small purchases.

COCollector · February 1, 2018 11:49AM

Maybe you already know there are several versions of the American Silver Eagle (ASE):

-- Proof,

-- Uncirculated (AKA "burnished"), and

-- Bullion.

You mentioned MS70, which means you're looking at the Bullion ASE. Available only from dealers (Apmex, JMBullion, many others) and in the aftermarket from private sellers.

BigA · February 1, 2018 12:33PM

Mostly excellent advice from the group. My two cents;
1...as you already did, pick a slab type/company (PCGS/NGC) you like and stick to it
2...I would NOT go for graded bullion...especially in MS69 grade...value will go nowhere. Watch out for "minted in San Fran" usually with a (S) on the label but no mintmark. These are regular bullion coins
3...I WOULD go for the burnished W version OR the proofs which has some collector premium attached. This includes the S Mint and reverse proofs.
4...I prefer MS70's W's and PF's but budget might be a factor.
5...I also prefer the First Strike/Early Release labels which historically have had a better resale price.
6...there is also a decision as to whether you are a collector or a collector with an eventual sale down the road. #'s 3, 4 & 5 come into play here

(Note: MS70 is also found on the burnished version)

cruisersk1 · February 1, 2018 1:00PM

My thought on first strike. If it was the first coin struck on the die then it would mean something. It just means you bought the coin in the first thirty days. Or if more than 30 days has passed you didn't open the box to make sure you actually got what you ordered. It could be the last coin off the die before they rework or pitch it and it would still be a first strike. You could have a coin minted on day 90 that was the first coin off a new die and would look much better than some "first strike" coins. That label cost a fortune to small guys like me that doesn't submit much. And then you have some of the lower mintage coins that were all minted in the first thirty days. I just don't understand the premium for first strike. Maybe someone else smarter than me has a different opinion.

Cameonut · February 1, 2018 1:10PM

I like the ASE design but don't really collect them. I have one or two proofs I picked up in package deals.

I do not collect First Strike of any kind - it is a misnomer and marketing hype. If you like the holders and want to pay a premium for them - fine. To me they are worth zero premium - and yes, there are those that disagree with me on this.

The ASEs I have are strictly for bullion value. I pick up a roll here and there and put them away. Thus I don't really care much about whether they have a tick or two on them. To me, they are just silver.

I would never spend big premiums to get a MS70 or PR70. I think the 69s are just fine for the price.

That is how I FEEL about the subject. YOU may see things differently so collect what you like.

BigA · February 1, 2018 1:35PM

I just don't understand the premium for first strike.

You don't have to. I agree it's meaningless BUT they do sell for more and if you are a seller that's the way to go. I have given up trying to figure out why some collectors buy what the buy and just go with the flow....labels matter....no argument that they mean anything
Beliefs vs. facts

Overdate · February 1, 2018 1:41PM

@COCollector said:
Mintage can seriously affect price. For example, only 75,000 Proof American Silver Eagles (ASEs) were produced at the San Francisco Mint ("S" mint mark).

125,000 when you include the 50,000 made available in the Limited Edition Silver Proof Set.

@COCollector said:

Maybe you already know there are several versions of the American Silver Eagle (ASE):

-- Proof,

-- Uncirculated (AKA "burnished"), and

-- Bullion.

Also Reverse Proof and Enhanced Uncirculated.

@Cameonut said:
I do not collect First Strike of any kind - it is a misnomer and marketing hype. If you like the holders and want to pay a premium for them - fine. To me they are worth zero premium - and yes, there are those that disagree with me on this.

First Strikes in the 69 grades usually fetch little or no premium over non-First-Strikes. I collect them in 69 because I prefer the flag label over the regular label.

Stooge · February 1, 2018 1:47PM

@2dueces I myself am a PSA & PCGS guy as I collect both cards and coins. I would stick with the PCGS slabbed coins as they are sister companies with PSA and the websites and set registries are identical.

ASE's are really neat to collect. I have a few of the First Strike holders, but don't really care about them as I collect the coin not the slab. You might want to stay away from silver eagles that have white milky spots. Very ugly coins.

Good luck.

mvs7 · February 1, 2018 2:02PM

ASEs are a low-cost way to get your feet wet in coin collecting, as long as you are collecting nice coins while not paying huge premiums for "special" labels or finishes while you are just learning the coin market.

If you enjoy the challenge of "hole filling" while putting together that set, and you like the design of the ASE, you could try to put together a short set of Walking Liberty half dollars (1941-1947) in a grade you are comfortable with... it has the same obverse design. Here is a link to the PCGS Set Registry page for this set: Walking Liberty 50c - Short Set. There are plenty of classic and modern sets which are interesting to collect if you ever choose to expand past ASEs. Just always do your homework before you buy... same as cards.

Welcome to the coin side, good luck, and have fun!

MsMorrisine · February 1, 2018 2:17PM

Proof

or

Burnished (has mintmark on reverse)

or

Bullion (no mintmark)

????

and while I'm asking -- with or without toning?

MsMorrisine · February 1, 2018 2:23PM

link to PCGS coinfacts for 'normal' ASEs. (normal as opposed to reverse proof)

AUandAG · February 1, 2018 2:23PM

Not a card guy, but do collect ASE's for my album and stacking.
Couple of thoughts.
1. First strike is like a baseball rookie card. Might have more value eventually, might not.
2. A card that is damaged loses it's value quickly but a coin that tarnishes MAY increase in value. Even though tarnish (toning) is a form of damage it is highly desirable to some collectors that will pay a substantial premium for them.

bob

COCollector · February 1, 2018 3:28PM

@BigA said:
... (Note: MS70 is also found on the burnished version)

Now PCGS uses "SP70".

MsMorrisine · February 1, 2018 3:31PM

They do now, but they did use MS in the past.

BryceM · February 1, 2018 6:30PM

Personally, I don’t collect ASEs but I own plenty as bullion. My brain has “rare coins” and bullion in very different categories. One is collectible, the other is stackable. If you enjoy collecting them, go for it. There aren’t too many rules in this hobby! Just realize that virtually no ASE will ever be truly rare. Some of the special issues, proofs, and such have a decent collector base.

Be careful though. A single proof ASE that I got from the mint in 1987 (and still have) was a gateway drug into this huge madhouse we call coin collecting.

TwoSides2aCoin · February 1, 2018 6:46PM

Buy low. Don’t sell high. Leave that to the dealer . That’s why he drinks.

hchcoin · February 1, 2018 7:06PM

Welcome @2dueces . The silver eagle is a fun way to get started. Have fun. I bought a Dansco Album to put them in and collect one per year. It looks really nice when you fill the book up.

Gluggo · February 1, 2018 7:52PM

I like PCGS they are much harder to grade to 70. In my opinion NGC does a poor job and grades their 70s twice if not more than PCGS does their. In essence PCGS 70's get more money and hold their value.

Your almost better to buy 70 graded coins but buy them in the first days when they come out. Every week that goes by the price ticks up.

I like Proofs
I like SP70's
All First Strike Labels you cant go wrong. Well strike that will 2018 be valuable? Proofs been out early this year. SP's are not out yet they might be the better play as the 2018 proofs will be selling 12 months vs depending with the SP's come out might only be a few months later in the fall.

I have spent thousands on 70's Silver Dollars I have since moved on to other coins. Dan Carr Coins now and Civil War Tokens is my new thing. Good luck

BigA · February 2, 2018 5:26AM

@MsMorrisine said:
They do now, but they did use MS in the past.

Yup...and since he was started with 1986 it will be a while before he gets to any SP's...and....MS is still used by NGC

ricko · February 2, 2018 9:03AM

@2dueces... Welcome to the coin forum..... ASE's are a nice coin and many collect them... They started in 1986 (you mentioned '87) and there are several versions (i.e. proof, MS etc.).... I would avoid special labels unless you intend to be a seller as well. Coins graded 70 (PR or MS) will always command a premium in collector circles. Best of luck with your new direction... Cheers, RickO