This doesn't look like the same coin?

wrighty · January 31, 2018 5:02PM

First link is a current auction, second link is the same cert # from a 2015 auction. Has the coin toned in the holder or is the 2015 picture just over exposed? There is no truview for this coin to compare.

https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-dimes/dimes/1879-10c-pr66-deep-cameo-pcgs-cac/a/1272-3773.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

https://coins.ha.com/itm/proof-seated-dimes/1879-10c-pr66-deep-cameo-pcgs-cac/a/1218-3062.s?ic3=ViewItem-Auction-Open-PreviousPricesHeritage-081514

Unknown · January 31, 2018 5:08PM

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Regulated · January 31, 2018 5:19PM

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark, I think.

Wabbit2313 · January 31, 2018 5:20PM

I have seen toned coins go blast white after restoration but this is crazy.

Image from 2015:

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Image from 2018:

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Regulated · January 31, 2018 5:26PM

They are the same coin, but I'd love to know how the toning developed in the holder.

wrighty · January 31, 2018 5:37PM

Too be clear I'm in no way trying to disparage the coin, I'm interested in that date and grade but I'd like to know what it looks like.

morgandollar1878 · January 31, 2018 5:47PM

My guess is that it got dipped some time before it got graded and has since retoned in the holder because it was not done properly prior to the submission.

Ablinky · January 31, 2018 8:16PM

I'd like to know how it turned too, but I agree with others that it looks like dip residue toning.

jmlanzaf · January 31, 2018 8:19PM

Definitely the same coin. Those holders aren't completely airtight. Things can still tone, although that was pretty quick.

Kkathyl · January 31, 2018 8:22PM

Perhaps it wasn’t nutrealized before goin in holder and then the toning occurred

panexpoguy · January 31, 2018 8:23PM

Seems consistent with a thread I posted a while back I in which I asked if anyone else had noticed coins toning unexpectedly after being holdered in the versions with the DuPont hologram on the back. My examples were also blast white and began toning on the side of the coin closest to the hologram.

blitzdude · January 31, 2018 8:33PM

@morgandollar1878 said:
My guess is that it got dipped some time before it got graded and has since retoned in the holder because it was not done properly prior to the submission.

THIS is exactly what happened. I dip every toned coin that comes into my hands. Many will return to pre dipped state rather quickly, < 2-3 years. That is the same coin no question about it.

davewesen · January 31, 2018 8:41PM

@blitzdude said:

@morgandollar1878 said:
My guess is that it got dipped some time before it got graded and has since retoned in the holder because it was not done properly prior to the submission.

THIS is exactly what happened. I dip every toned coin that comes into my hands. Many will return to pre dipped state rather quickly, < 2-3 years. That is the same coin no question about it.

What do you do to neutralize the dip?

RogerB · January 31, 2018 8:56PM

Same coin but appears to have been stored where there is sulfur in the atmosphere. Possibly, West Virginia or other coal-producing area?

Wabbit2313 · January 31, 2018 10:06PM

PCGS holders are airtight by design. I have not had a white coin tone in a PCGS holder in the many years I have owned them. Not saying it is impossible, but certainly not common.

RogerB · January 31, 2018 10:13PM

No plastic holder is "air tight."

Barndog · January 31, 2018 10:30PM

CAC sticker. Hmm.

Dave99B · January 31, 2018 11:08PM

No real mystery. Same coin. Dipped white. Now toning naturally....quite nicely, actually. Sorta like the new version!

Dave

morgandollar1878 · January 31, 2018 11:20PM

@RogerB said:
No plastic holder is "air tight."

The new PCGS holders are. Don Willis promoted the current holder as being air tight in a video when the new holder first came out. He dropped it into a goldfish bowl full of water. The holder of the coin in question here, I am not sure if it is one of the current holders or not.

jmlanzaf · February 1, 2018 1:02AM

@morgandollar1878 said:

@RogerB said:
No plastic holder is "air tight."

The new PCGS holders are. Don Willis promoted the current holder as being air tight in a video when the new holder first came out. He dropped it into a goldfish bowl full of water. The holder of the coin in question here, I am not sure if it is one of the current holders or not.

waterproof is not the same as air tight. Ask him to perform the same experiment with hydrogen sulfide gas.

Note the language - "virtually airtight" -

https://pcgs.com/news/PCGS-Introduces-Superior-New-Holder

Treashunt · February 1, 2018 5:41AM

put in the sun? for a year or so

oih82w8 · February 1, 2018 6:20AM

Yup...same coin.

seateddime · February 1, 2018 8:36AM

That coin is ART Toned. I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole!

ricko · February 1, 2018 8:57AM

Definitely the same coin. No slabs are perfectly sealed... Hermetic sealing is a process usually found in microelectronics... The dictionary definition of the term “hermetic” means a seal that is gas tight or impervious to gas flow. The process to attain this and the testing to assure the seal is expensive. Slabs will not pass this testing. The coin in question likely was dipped at one point and not fully neutralized. Cheers, RickO

Insider2 · February 1, 2018 9:03AM

The coin was not properly dipped. Some professionals neutralize coins with a ultrasonic cleaner. Nevertheless, it looks nice to my old eyes; HOWEVER:

OP, please check out the field of your coin at 5 OC. Next to the "9" there are round blobs. Note they were not on the "white" image. There are also a lot of "particles" that appear raised on the surface. I suspect the blobs are liquid. PVC can occur this way. For my education, please let me know if the things I mention are on the plastic or the coin. Thanks.

TomB · February 1, 2018 9:35AM

The coin was obviously dipped prior to certification and has since begun to re-tone. Truly, I do not see any uproar with this coin even though it will likely continue to tone a bit more slowly and incrementally over time.

wrighty · February 1, 2018 11:19AM

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@Insider2 said:
The coin was not properly dipped. Some professionals neutralize coins with a ultrasonic cleaner. Nevertheless, it looks nice to my old eyes; HOWEVER:

OP, please check out the field of your coin at 5 OC. Next to the "9" there are round blobs. Note they were not on the "white" image. There are also a lot of "particles" that appear raised on the surface. I suspect the blobs are liquid. PVC can occur this way. For my education, please let me know if the things I mention are on the plastic or the coin. Thanks.

Insider it is not my coin I was viewing the auction online, looked at past auction results and saw the difference in appearance and was curious if it was photography or retoning. It appears the consensus is past dip and retone in holder. Thank you everyone.

morgandollar1878 · February 1, 2018 5:14PM

@jmlanzaf said:

@morgandollar1878 said:

@RogerB said:
No plastic holder is "air tight."

The new PCGS holders are. Don Willis promoted the current holder as being air tight in a video when the new holder first came out. He dropped it into a goldfish bowl full of water. The holder of the coin in question here, I am not sure if it is one of the current holders or not.

waterproof is not the same as air tight. Ask him to perform the same experiment with hydrogen sulfide gas.

Note the language - "virtually airtight" -

https://pcgs.com/news/PCGS-Introduces-Superior-New-Holder

>

With all due respect I think you need to go back and read the article that you linked to me to read.

This quote below was in the middle of the article.

"This is part of the ongoing, aggressive efforts by PCGS to combat the global proliferation of counterfeit coins and imitation holders," said PCGS Co-Founder David Hall. "In addition to the advanced security features, the new holder's airtight design will help prevent spotting and toning of coins."

jmlanzaf · February 1, 2018 5:20PM

@morgandollar1878 said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@morgandollar1878 said:

@RogerB said:
No plastic holder is "air tight."

>

With all due respect I think you need to go back and read the article that you linked to me to read.

This quote below was in the middle of the article.

"This is part of the ongoing, aggressive efforts by PCGS to combat the global proliferation of counterfeit coins and imitation holders," said PCGS Co-Founder David Hall. "In addition to the advanced security features, the new holder's airtight design will help prevent spotting and toning of coins."

With equal respect, read the technical specifications part as well as Hall's advertisement:

"Thee chemical formula contains PCGS-specific additives that can be detected using a special handheld device. These sturdier, tamper-evident holders have no edge seam, are virtually airtight and will provide even more protection against potential environmental damage to coins."

morgandollar1878 · February 1, 2018 5:40PM

@jmlanzaf The strength of the seal to make something air tight can be broken if enough outside force or internal force for that matter is exerted on the seal, and that is why they stated "virtually air tight". There is also the possibility to have a defective seal which in turn would make it not air tight. By the way just for reference, there is no difference between air tight and water tight, they are the same thing.

jmlanzaf · February 1, 2018 6:19PM

@morgandollar1878 said:
@jmlanzaf The strength of the seal to make something air tight can be broken if enough outside force or internal force for that matter is exerted on the seal, and that is why they stated "virtually air tight". There is also the possibility to have a defective seal which in turn would make it not air tight. By the way just for reference, there is no difference between air tight and water tight, they are the same thing.

I beg to differ, but there is a difference. You can be both. If you are airtight, you are also watertight. But not everything that is water tight is air tight, for example goretex.

morgandollar1878 · February 1, 2018 6:48PM

Dang, I've been gore-texed,

BLUEJAYWAY · February 1, 2018 11:48PM

I was unfamiliar with Gore-Tex. Googled the item to become more informed. I has mistakenly assumed it was another "invention" credited to Al Gore,like the internet invention claim.

Unknown · February 8, 2018 6:50PM

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Unknown · February 8, 2018 7:02PM

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metalmeister · February 8, 2018 11:13PM

Unless the slab is sealed in 100% inert gas aka Nitrogen, trace gasses will be in the slab with the coin even if the coin surface is 100% clean.

This doesn't look like the same coin?

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