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Oh Rainbow tones. I wasn't sure but finally jumped in on the light side of the spectrum.
Paradisefound
Posts: 8,588 ✭✭✭✭✭
I just want to be on a "safe" side; not knowing exactly what to do or not to do on toned coins.
Raw coins are definitely not for novice collector like me so I picked this PCGS soft rainbow to start this new part of collecting.
It is a beautiful one and the first year, although it is only MS68. Did I do the right thing?
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Color too soft to be worth much of a premium. After six years of buying and selling these, I got out. Too much AT material in PCGS holders on the market. Yours does look ok. Better educate yourself before spending your money on these.
I think its 100% Natural Toning. It looks great to me and if you like it that's all that really matters.
Later, Paul.
I don't think ANYTHING is safe when it comes to collecting. Spending money beyond the bullion value of coins always involves some risk. Even bullion is risky. The long-term prospect of ASE toners might be great, but it's a little too nebulous for me to get excited about it.
Nice coin!... You either like toning or you don't... it's your choice.
I either agree with your post or I don't. In this case, I do.
That looks like a natural tarnish... that being said, any type can be duplicated. However, if you paid a reasonable price, you did fine...Cheers, RickO
I don't see a rainbow .
Is it mean "un-natural" occurrence? Can we call it a toned coin? How did PCGS grade this as far a toned candidate?
@Paradisefound...You can call it whatever you like...it is still tarnish, which, is environmental damage to the surface of the coin....changing the name, does not change the fact. Cheers, RickO
Thank you for that explaination sir! I got my safe in too, Mr. Rick she is nice with the rubber shelving surface. Still working on it finishing arranging with the extra shelvings I bought.
@bolivarshagnasty why do you think TPG's are slabbing more AT ones? These two ASE's were posted to reddit and they are blatantly AT and yet still in plastic...
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/82974140
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/82974142
What would you value it versus the rainbow? I am early on my learning curve in this subject.
Is it worth $179?
Sweet heart pink nice.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Is natural tarnish is the starting process on how silver coin attaining their rainbow tone?
@Paradisefound .... Two points... your question about value - Is it worth it to you? If so, fine.
Second point... natural tarnish - or artificial - is the coloration (either good or bad) you see on silver coins. The difference between natural and artificial is that 'natural' has occurred without assistance or intent. Artificial is tarnish induced by introducing heat and/or chemicals in a manner to produce tarnish, usually faster than natural occurring tarnish. Either way, you have tarnish. The numismatic community likes (in most cases) natural tarnish (or that tarnish they think is natural) and rejects (usually) that which is artificial - in their judgement. Cheers, RickO
@ricko....I though tarnish is the starting process to rainbow and I am wrong with that conclusion.
I am surprise PGCS label does not indicate such condition. Thank you for sharing your expertise.
Good day RickO
We may never know, but for 3 or 4 years it seems they were unable or unwilling to distinguish AT/NT on these. Good news is they are issuing a lot of QC grades these days. The only toning I'm comfortable identifying anymore is the PCI holder toning.
@Paradisefound... Tarnish is tarnish... In some cases, depending on the environment, you get pretty colors, in other cases, ugly color...but beginning to end, no matter the visual result, it is all tarnish... many collectors like to call it 'toning'....a more politically correct term for tarnish.... however, it is all environmental damage - no matter how 'pretty' it looks. Cheers, RickO
@FadeToBlack ....It does not matter whether the usefullness or function of the coin is impaired....It does not change the scientific fact that tarnish is a chemical degradation of the metal surface. That is fact. And degradation is damage. Cheers, RickO
Oh @ricko, the market disagrees with you in that attractive toning is a value enhancement and not a degradation
@Catbert..... The market may well like tarnish when it exhibits certain colors...and I agree that in many cases it enhances value.... That does not change the scientific fact that tarnish is the chemical degrading of the metal. Do not confuse the issues... one is the market, the other is metallurgy. Cheers, RickO
But I say “damage” is relative. While I won’t argue with the microscopic surface impact, the “so what” factor is relevant for collectors who do not have a puritanical orientation! What is “damage” to some, is added value to others.
No it's not worth anywhere near $179. More like $50-60.
bob
Pcgs definition of environmental damage....
environmental damage. Corrosion-effect seen on a coin that has been exposed to the elements. This may be minor, such as toning that is nearly black, to major - a coin found in the ground or water which has severely pitted surfaces. PCGS does not grade coins with environmental damage.
PCGS defintition of corrosion .....
Damage that results when reactive chemicals act upon metal. When toning ceases to be a "protective" coating and instead begins to damage a coin, corrosion is the cause.
So, according to our host, does toning that has not reached a terminal stage (considered environmental damage) actually provides a protective coating for a coins surfaces?
@Hadleydog .... Tarnish does not provide a protective coating to the surface...it is the surface combined with chemicals such as sulfur and possibly others (depending on storage or intentional exposures). It is damage, just the very early stages. Cheers, RickO
@ricko....
Always listening, and trying to learn.
I've listened to people such as Stewart Blay.......
Quote:
Original toning is preferable,” Blay asserts, “because the original skin of a coin is left intact. When one dips and [thus] strips the original skin off, the originality of the coin is diminished.”
I've listened to people such as Jay Brahin.....
Quote:
To the eye of a true collector, originality is more important than shiny,” declares Brahin. “Natural toning is a testament to the age and natural process that the coin has gone through. What makes antiques appealing is their antiqueness, a normal aging process of the items. The natural aging of a relic attests to its authenticity. If you saw an 18th-century original document that was a bright manila white, you would realize that something [was] wrong with it. You would expect an old document to show natural signs of aging. If you see an 18th-century silver coin that is bright white, it is suspect; or if it has bright purple toning, it means something is wrong.”
And I've admired beautifully toned coins from collections such as Eliasburg, Simpson, and Pogue.
Environmental damage?
They didn't think so, and I'd have to agree.
@Hadleydog.... You are certainly entitled to your opinion.... and opinions are what grading is all about... However, I am speaking in metallurgical and scientific terms.... and in the realm of reality - scientific fact - tarnish is environmental damage. It is the chemical degradation of surface metal. Cheers, RickO
Sorry ricko, but even coming from a purely scientific approach I can't agree with you. Just don't see the evidence, yet I can support my argument.
I've understood tarnish on silver or copper to be a film on the surface, like a layer. Is that correct?
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@Paradisefound Nice coin, by the way!
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This is my only toned Eagle:
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Toning or patina is an optical effect caused by graduated layers of silver oxide on the surface of a coin.