Everyman Sets ...

savitale · January 8, 2018 9:31PM

I don't get the Everyman Set thing in general. What is the point of having a separate "2nd class"? I certainly understand that folks of average means (like myself) can't compete with the "big boy" collections no matter hard they might try. But I still prefer to keep my coins on the big boy list, even if that means being #8 or #10. Is it more satisfying somehow to be #1 or #2 on the Everyman List?

lkeigwin · January 8, 2018 10:19PM

For some collectors assembling a superb set of AU coins is a more challenging accomplishment than throwing a lot of money at the highest graded coins.
Lance.

oih82w8 · January 8, 2018 10:42PM

Coins are meant for one thing - circulating within commerce. Having a coin that was used for it's intended purpose and removed from circulation while maintaining it's details to the highest degree of being minimally circulated is the goal of a Everyman Set...IMO. Give it a whirl...the (7070) Type Set is probably one of the easier sets to assemble....but it's no walk in the park.

Stooge · January 8, 2018 10:48PM

Just try to assemble an AU58 set of Barber Quarters or Halves. It's damn near impossible.
How about a PO01 set of Peace Dollars....nope!
Some collectors love owning coins that have character and actually have served economy. Ever wonder where your 150yr old coin has been???

topstuf · January 9, 2018 7:23AM

While it sounds interesting, I'd like to hear comments about SELLING these 58s.
En masse. Not just the stoppers.

ricko · January 9, 2018 8:52AM

I enjoy circulated coins that still have good detail.....Sure, high quality coins with proof like surfaces are beautiful, however, IMO, the mild circulation gives them character, and certainly mystery. Who has held them? What did they buy? Where did they travel? All part of this great hobby... Cheers, RickO

TennesseeDave · January 9, 2018 9:18AM

To each his own, but I prefer collecting XF-AU coins. Don't get me wrong if I were wealthy I would collect some uncirculated classic coins but not entire sets. I'm glad PCGS started the everyman sets.

291fifth · January 9, 2018 9:22AM

Why allow yourself to get caught up in the # this or # that nonsense. Collect what you like and buy what you can afford.

topstuf · January 9, 2018 10:23AM

@291fifth said:
Why allow yourself to get caught up in the # this or # that nonsense. Collect what you like and buy what you can afford.

What kind of nonsense is THAT? HERESY !!!

LindeDad · January 9, 2018 2:23PM

Try it it's like crack.
https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/everyman-collections/everyman-complete-type-sets/everyman-complete-u-s-type-set-1792-1964/publishedset/160794

mirabela · January 9, 2018 7:32PM

I'd like to hear comments about SELLING these 58s.

I've found 58 to be a desired and easy grade to sell in all the type series from the Barber era and back, as well as Peace dollars, SLQ's, or better date buffs or WLH's. Gold too, especially when you get outside the common-as-dirt date/mm's where 62 or even 63 might be the value grade with a thin margin over bullion. As with anything, the important thing is to know the market, buy right, and sell right. It's been a while since I've bought or sold very much, but between 2005 and '13 or so I handled lots of choice AU 'stuff' and never found it difficult to get out of.

coinkat · January 9, 2018 7:37PM

The Everyman's set gives collectors the opportunity to assemble a quality for the grade set at various states of preservation for an entire series. It is not about competing or having the finest known, it's simply about finding coins with the right look.

savitale · January 9, 2018 8:18PM

I agree that coins were meant to circulate, and that there is a certain appeal to collecting circulated coins as opposed to MS or Proof specimens. I also agree that, money aside, completing a nice circulated set is harder in many cases than completing a nice uncirculated set.

But my question wasn’t about collecting circulated vs uncirculated. It was about the need for two separate registry sets. What’s the point? Circulated coin sets are perfectly welcome in the regular set registry.

Kkathyl · January 9, 2018 8:22PM

I’m going to push for changes I say why Everyman. Why not Everyperson or Everyone or EveryEvery Set.

Haha I’m fine with Everyman

Stooge · January 10, 2018 12:07AM

@savitale said:
But my question wasn’t about collecting circulated vs uncirculated. It was about the need for two separate registry sets. What’s the point? Circulated coin sets are perfectly welcome in the regular set registry.

The point being, and referencing Barbers Halves again, is that in the everyman's sets you can post ur AU58 set and be in the top 5, where as the general set of Barbers you will be no where near the top. Same with the low ball sets.

coinkat · January 10, 2018 3:47AM

It is about offering a venue to show case and share coins at a different state of preservation

Treashunt · January 10, 2018 5:02AM

58 is tougher than 65's.

Check out Barber dimes or quarters

LindeDad · January 10, 2018 8:40AM

@Treashunt said:
58 is tougher than 65's.

Check out Barber dimes or quarters

Not just the Barbers, Any of the Seated with all the different Varities.

WaterSport · January 10, 2018 10:58AM

2 days ago - no one noticed - (well except me as I have been changing my registery photos) that the number of registered sets crossed 90,000. That many sets means there is something for everyone. It also means it was a good marketing move by PCGS to add Everyman sets along with variety sets, Vams,etc., etc.

WS

TommyType · January 10, 2018 11:04AM

I know one thing....

AU-58's changed over the last 10 years(?) from being just another AU grade, with little premium over 53 or 55.....into a completely differently priced animal. I used to LOVE finding AU-58 coins, and paid little premium for them. Now....I'm an XF-45 guy.

Dave99B · January 10, 2018 11:15AM

Which 1901-S Barber quarter is easier to locate:

1) PCGS MS63
2) PCGS XF40

Sometimes it's not all about the money, which is why Everyman sets are very interesting.

Dave

BAJJERFAN · January 10, 2018 11:15AM

@coinkat said:
The Everyman's set gives collectors the opportunity to assemble a quality for the grade set at various states of preservation for an entire series. It is not about competing or having the finest known, it's simply about finding coins with the right look.

One can do that without needing a separate category. It does however preclude adding uncirculated coins to mostly circulated coins in a set.

FWIW, my #7 Everyman set is still 58th in the regular all time finest Walker sets.

CoinPhysicist · January 10, 2018 11:26AM

@Dave99B said:
Which 1901-S Barber quarter is easier to locate:

1) PCGS MS63
2) PCGS XF40

Sometimes it's not all about the money, which is why Everyman sets are very interesting.

Dave

Maybe I'm weird, but when I look at "everyman" sets, I look at a set that most people should be able to afford the coins in, hence the name 'every man'. For the overwhelming majority of coins, the target of AU58 is fine. But barely any men (or women) can afford either of those two grade 1901-S Barber quarters, so in my opinion, neither of them should qualify for an 'everyman' set. The PCGS price guide has XF40 at $29,000 and MS63 at $44,000. There should be some sort of price limit/grade limit for what qualifies for an 'every man' set for the extreme rarities. Otherwise, it defeats the purpose in my opinion. Good luck finding an AU58 Chain Cent or Draped Bust Small Eagle Half Dollar for an 'everyman' set which are just more extreme examples than what you used. But I'm young, so what do I know? Maybe I'm all wrong and backwards in my thoughts.

Treashunt · January 10, 2018 11:28AM

@totally said:

@Dave99B said:
Which 1901-S Barber quarter is easier to locate:

1) PCGS MS63
2) PCGS XF40

Sometimes it's not all about the money, which is why Everyman sets are very interesting.

Dave

Maybe I'm weird, but when I look at "everyman" sets, I look at a set that most people should be able to afford the coins in, hence the name 'every man'. For the overwhelming majority of coins, the target of AU58 is fine. But barely any men (or women) can afford either of those two grade 1901-S Barber quarters, so in my opinion, neither of them should qualify for an 'everyman' set. The PCGS price guide has XF40 at $29,000 and MS63 at $44,000. There should be some sort of price limit/grade limit for what qualifies for an 'every man' set for the extreme rarities. Otherwise, it defeats the purpose in my opinion. Good luck finding an AU58 Chain Cent or Draped Bust Small Eagle Half Dollar for an 'everyman' set which are just more extreme examples than what you used. But I'm young, so what do I know? Maybe I'm all wrong and backwards in my thoughts.

agreed!

dbldie55 · January 10, 2018 12:00PM

In the end, the everyman sets have caused the price of AU58's (and much more so AU58+) coins to increase. I am sure this has caused more submissions, so it has helped the PCGS bottom line. That is just competitive human nature at work.

They do allow you to build a set in lower grades and at least see it show up on the registry page without doing a full list. I know my Buffalo set had a set rating of around 30 when I completed it. I never registered it in the main Buffalo Nickel set. (same with the Shield nickels)

As far as everyone should be able to afford the coins, some keys are expensive in all grades. (the 1901-S quarter is an example, but trying to build a complete Barber quarter set, even without the 3 keys, is costly in lower grades)

In the Buffalo nickel set, the 1926-S in AU58 is thousands of dollars, but in low grades is affordable to many. I always found the 1913-S Type 2 to be the last one I put in my albums.

CoinPhysicist · January 10, 2018 12:07PM

I want to clarify, @dbldie55. I think the 1901-S belongs in an every man set even though it is a rare key and I understand that it is a rare key and expensive in all grades. You can't throw something out because it's a challenge. But it belongs in my opinion at an AG or G or possibly VG level. Not an XF or AU level. It's ok for part of an "everyman" set to be a challenge to get. But there is a difference in my opinion between a challenge to obtain and ludicrous to expect everyone to be able to attain. At this point, completing the best 'everyman' set in AU is just as much throwing money as it is to get the set in MS 6X. So the purpose has been defeated in this poster's opinion.

I do agree that it has caused AU58 prices quite a bit.

Anyways, rant over. I've made my point and clarified it now where I thought it needed it.

dbldie55 · January 10, 2018 12:20PM

Here is a place where the "Everyman" set does make it more affordable. For the sets, the coins need to be circulated (ie: graded < 60). So, for some coins, proofs are affordable where business strikes are not.

In the Shield nickel set, the 1880 is expensive in all grades as a business strike. I have a PR58 in my set. Cost much, much less than an AG business strike. Although I do not know all the details, I think many of the later dates in the 3 cent nickel collection are also much easier to obtain as proofs.

You cannot register these coins in the regular registry sets, so the Everyman sets are not "just a subset" of the regular registry.

JeffMTampa · January 10, 2018 12:23PM

While I love the "Everyman" set concept, I hate the name. Many of the reasons I dislike the name have been pointed out in this thread. NGC started similar sets calling them "Circulated Only". That name lacks panache, but is a better descriptor. I would like it if PCGS would re-title the "Everyman" sets to provide both a more politically correct name and one that would provide more respect. Any ideas?

BAJJERFAN · January 10, 2018 12:40PM

@JeffMTampa said:
While I love the "Everyman" set concept, I hate the name. Many of the reasons I dislike the name have been pointed out in this thread. NGC started similar sets calling them "Circulated Only". That name lacks panache, but is a better descriptor. I would like it if PCGS would re-title the "Everyman" sets to provide both a more politically correct name and one that would provide more respect. Any ideas?

Everyperson? Everyone? Anybody? Whomever? I've always looked at the Everyman term as a generic or sort of a rhetorical designation and not given a second thought to being gender biased.

BAJJERFAN · January 10, 2018 12:42PM

@BAJJERFAN said:

@coinkat said:
The Everyman's set gives collectors the opportunity to assemble a quality for the grade set at various states of preservation for an entire series. It is not about competing or having the finest known, it's simply about finding coins with the right look.

One can do that without needing a separate category. It does however preclude adding uncirculated coins to mostly circulated coins in a set.

FWIW, my #7 Everyman set is still 58th in the regular all time finest Walker sets.

Further, since you can use the same coins in more than one category, having an Everyman set does not preclude you from participating the regular registry category.

CoinPhysicist · January 10, 2018 1:01PM

When I read @JeffMTampa 's comment, I didn't think he meant 'politically correct' to be the gender issue, @BAJJERFAN . I took it to be the fact that an 'everyman' set can have a coin that costs more than most people's houses in it (AU58 Chain Cent, AU58 Draped Bust Small Eagle Half Dollar, I'm looking at you). That's not 'everyman'.

I would call it the 'Penny-Pinching Set' (if PCGS or NGC take this name, I expect credit ) and it would have the following guiding rules:

For generic common coins that are readily available, i.e. most wheat cents, morgan dollars, walking liberty halves, etc, the highest allowed grade is AU58+.
For semi-key dates, you can't spend more than X or a grade higher than Y where X and Y need more thinking that I am willing to do right now. But some X and Y that keeps them reasonably priced.
For extreme rarity key dates like the 1901-S Barber Quarter, you are allowed a coin in the single digit grades only - so P01 through VG8. VG8 may be too high, I will confess I have no idea what that coin is worth.
For extreme extreme rarities, think Draped Bust Small Eagle Half Dollar, the highest allowed grade is G04 or G06. (OR just eliminate dates that are this rare and unattainable for the average person).

Again, I just came up with these 'rules' on the spot. I'm sure they need some modifications. This is just what I came up with in 3 minutes.

The idea is that it should be a set that everyone should be able to compete in for almost all the stages. A middle class person in X city and a rich person in Y city could theoretically compete in this set because of the constraints. Yes, I understand that even a G04 or G06 1797 or 1796 half dollar is not something that everyone can compete in which is why maybe it would be thrown out, but the rest of it is something an average person could compete in with some 'penny-pinching' of their own.

This is what I think the 'everyman' set should have been.

BAJJERFAN · January 10, 2018 2:21PM

@totally said:
When I read @JeffMTampa 's comment, I didn't think he meant 'politically correct' to be the gender issue, @BAJJERFAN . I took it to be the fact that an 'everyman' set can have a coin that costs more than most people's houses in it (AU58 Chain Cent, AU58 Draped Bust Small Eagle Half Dollar, I'm looking at you). That's not 'everyman'.

I would call it the 'Penny-Pinching Set' (if PCGS or NGC take this name, I expect credit ) and it would have the following guiding rules:

For generic common coins that are readily available, i.e. most wheat cents, morgan dollars, walking liberty halves, etc, the highest allowed grade is AU58+.

For semi-key dates, you can't spend more than X or a grade higher than Y where X and Y need more thinking that I am willing to do right now. But some X and Y that keeps them reasonably priced.

For extreme rarity key dates like the 1901-S Barber Quarter, you are allowed a coin in the single digit grades only - so P01 through VG8. VG8 may be too high, I will confess I have no idea what that coin is worth.

For extreme extreme rarities, think Draped Bust Small Eagle Half Dollar, the highest allowed grade is G04 or G06. (OR just eliminate dates that are this rare and unattainable for the average person).

Again, I just came up with these 'rules' on the spot. I'm sure they need some modifications. This is just what I came up with in 3 minutes.

The idea is that it should be a set that everyone should be able to compete in for almost all the stages. A middle class person in X city and a rich person in Y city could theoretically compete in this set because of the constraints. Yes, I understand that even a G04 or G06 1797 or 1796 half dollar is not something that everyone can compete in which is why maybe it would be thrown out, but the rest of it is something an average person could compete in with some 'penny-pinching' of their own.

This is what I think the 'everyman' set should have been.

What other than gender would be non PC about the term Everyman?

CoinPhysicist · January 10, 2018 2:45PM

I assumed you were talking about the financial aspect. I.e. it shouldn't be called everyman if not everyone can afford it because it offends the people who can't afford it even though clearly it says everyone can.

Whatever, I rest my case. I'm out of here now. Have a nice evening.

LindeDad · January 10, 2018 3:19PM

Yeah I am having problems seeing that 16-D in my Merc set.

Dave99B · January 10, 2018 3:34PM

Wow. People are really getting hung up on the term "Everyman". In hindsight, it probably should have been called "Circulated" instead, to eliminate some of this confusion. I doubt PCGS was trying to offend it's customers!

Dave

ChrisH821 · January 10, 2018 3:59PM

@JeffMTampa said:
While I love the "Everyman" set concept, I hate the name. Many of the reasons I dislike the name have been pointed out in this thread. NGC started similar sets calling them "Circulated Only". That name lacks panache, but is a better descriptor. I would like it if PCGS would re-title the "Everyman" sets to provide both a more politically correct name and one that would provide more respect. Any ideas?

How about the "Commerce Survivor Set"?

topstuf · January 10, 2018 4:25PM

Who did NOT know that Barbers would be the first contradiction?

JeffMTampa · January 10, 2018 5:37PM

Not me....

howards · January 12, 2018 1:19AM

@dbldie55 said:

In the Shield nickel set, the 1880 is expensive in all grades as a business strike. I have a PR58 in my set.

I don't understand why PCGS chose to allow using a PR58 in the Everyman Set. If you click on the Set Composition, and then click on 1880, you find that it is coin #3810 which is specifically a business strike.

oih82w8 · January 12, 2018 6:06AM

I am so tired of this gender neutrality mumbo-jumbo. Reminds me of a little George Carlin skit...editied to meet a family friendly environment.

George Carlin: When it comes to changing the language, I think they make some good points. Because we do think in language. And so the quality of our thoughts and ideas can only be as good as the quality of our language. So maybe some of this patriarchal (stuff) ought to go away. I think "spokesman" ought to be "spokesperson." I think "chairman" ought to be "chairperson." I think "mankind" ought to be "humankind." But they take it too far, they take themselves too seriously, they exaggerate. They want me to call that thing in the street a "personhole cover." I think that's taking it a little bit too far!

What would you call a ladies' man, a "person's person"? That would make a he-man an "it-person." Little kids would be afraid of the "boogie-person." They'd look up in the sky and see the "person in the moon." Guys would say "come back here and fight like a person," and we'd all sing "For It's a Jolly Good Person," that's the kind of thing you would hear on "Late Night with David Letterperson"! You know what I mean?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0246642/quotes

savitale · January 12, 2018 6:56AM

The Everyman name bothers me too, for several of the reasons noted above. It seems like the intent was to make a venue where folks with “middle class” (what ever that is) budgets could play in the registry set game (financially good for PCGS) with a shot at 5th place instead of 50th place. I truly don’t believe it was set up based on the notion that AU58’s are rarer than MSxx, eventhough that is mostly true. I’m thinking the AU58 phenomenon arose organically.

Maybe they should change the name to Circulated-Only, and change the description to include a more compelling justification than just finances. I know some people are spending a lot of time and money on these sets, and they deserve better. When I look at the current description, I get the distinct notion of “second class”.

Bob1951 · January 13, 2018 4:15AM

Most all of my sets are everyman sets with the exception of some low-ball set coins. Are proof only coins allowed in everyman sets?

Everyman Sets ...

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