Dan Carr
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For the last few months I have noticed a fair amount of Dan Carr pieces come up for sale on the Buy/Sell boards here. Anyone know why? Or is it just secondary market stuff...
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Christmas fund allocation or gift ideas from the secondary market would be my guess.
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On the Carr thread, one major collector said they were selling most of their items to fund another project.
Others might just be taking gains on items that are trading for high prices.
For me-someone who only had a few of the more recent pieces-it was moving on from buying something that I didn’t really end up liking (I had some of the 2017 1.5 oz Octagons and didn’t like them as much as the previous versions that I missed).
I like my Dan Carr pieces.... I will check ebay and see if there are any I may want... Thanks for the alert.... Cheers, RickO
I'm with Ricko. Like my pieces that are not for sale. I get what I like, leave the rest. Usually don't spend too much money except for the 2011 Confederate pieces in gold! Yikes!
Well, just Love coins, period.
A guy that likes some of his medals but is a full-on "call secret service hater" of his overstrikes was given an overstrike for the secret Santa on Coin Talk. It was awesome!
I had not seen the earlier report that one or more of his big "patrons" is bailing, but it has always been my suspicion that a relative few deep pockets keep things hyped and hard to get.
For poor schmucks like me on a numismatic budget it has been a challenge to try to collect a complete series of any DC issues. Between very limited editions that sell out before the virtual ink is dry on the website announcing their availability, and the sometimes huge variety that is produced (perhaps overproduced?), it is tough to keep up. Add to that issues that disappear from the website without notice and it can get frustrating, to say the least. And, once I miss an issue, it sort of makes the "collection" I had been building sort of pointless. For example, I started collecting the fantasy overstrikes but abandoned that early on once so many issues came out. More recently I have may have stopped (not sure yet) collecting his Hard Times tokens since I missed the last couple. I have not sold off any yet but I imagine at some point I will reassess what I have and decide if I want to keep all of them or just a sampling.
None of this is meant to suggest I don't like DC issues - they are great, I even have some of his art medals/plaques and I love those. I just feel that a lot of it is aimed at a certain well-funded sector of the market that could in theory (and perhaps now in reality) turn fickle and move on to the next big thing.
I do produce a wide variety of items. But this isn't really a function of a marketing plan. The next thing that I make is usually the result of impulse. If I think of something that I would like myself as a collector, then I'll try and do it. I do have one eventual goal, however, and that is to make a fantasy-date over-strike for every major type of US coin. So there is a lot more to do in that arena.
Even a "Carr" piece is not immune to the overall effects of the coin market. Those effects may even be amplified due to the limited production of most.
They are/we’re a fad. The viability of an actual 2 way market may not be what it appeared to be early. While a 64d will always receive interest due to the novelty, I don’t know about the rest of his reproductions being liquid after the fad wears off.
His originals have always received limited interest which is most likely why he produced so many fantasy coins.
If his name was Lee or Chan, they would all be worthless save for metal content.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Dan Carr Booster Club..............sign up now! (Who wants to create one?)
Pete
Your statement currently couldn’t be farther from the truth . I am currently very busy moving into a new home, so I don’t have the time to provide all of the links or details, but the DC secondary market is not really much different than any other collectibles market that I have been involved in over the past 30 years .
There are ups and downs on each of his different pieces and niche target markets.
Just the past week I sold a 1/10 oz silver piece for $42 plus shipping . Why is that ?
Because at the time (2014) I recognized that the Reeded Edge version would be harder to get down the road and it had a very attractive design . I paid the $25 issue price in 2014, so based on coin mark ups listening to you guys I would say that is still pretty strong from an investment standpoint .
I am the referenced collector in this thread that is selling off part of my collection, but it’s nobodys business as to all of my reasons , however our home and other things were part of the reason.
I am not just a huge collector of past DC issues , but I was probably one of the top three secondary market sellers of Dans work for a 3-4 year period, prior to having some family and personal health issues at which time I couldn’t keep up with buying volumes of all the new issues.
To sum things up there has been a drop in the price of certain pieces yet many the price still remains very strong .
In 2012 there were three primary sellers on eBay of Dans work (Pav, Jackpot G&S and Myself) with an overall number of pieces generally for sale at around 60-80 on any given day . Since that time many more secondary market dealers, vest pocket dealers, flippers, whatever you wish to call them have entered the market . Now if you do a search you will come up with more like 375 DC items available on a daily basis .
Obviously more items have been produced since that time, which would make more potentially available , however there are now more DC buyers (dealers/collectors) who are now buying multiples of pieces in hopes of selling of some to fund their collections .
I still believe the collector base has grown, however I believe that more dealers have entered the market looking for a profit , which has created a larger secondary market .
I’m getting tired , but I will add to this conversation tomorrow possibly and give some more insight into some other statements made within that are not really accurate.
As I once said in one of the threads ” to buy one of every single issue and you will be guaranteed a home run somewhere”.
Some releases are stronger than others and every one cannot be a huge success.
One last comment in regards to a posters deep pockets theory in that it is simply not true .
I woke up for my kids school every day at 5 am and checked the DC website every single morning for 4 years. That requires commitment and desire to obtain everything released. Nothing comes without effort !!
Peace & Good Night
DC still rocks on !!!
More to come ......
You seem to be proving my "deep pockets" theory: "Buy one of every single issue" and "obtain everything that is released".
While getting up early to check the website every day for four years shows unparalleled commitment that most people cannot match, it has nothing to do with "deep pockets". Being able and willing to buy everyting issued does.
You are clearly a top customer, what in the art world in the old days would have been called a "patron". You are one of the people who has provided a ready market for all DC issues, and that is what helps keep him in business. In a sense, all of us who appreciate his work owe people like you a debt of gratitude. But, your scenario is not realistic for most people.
Back in 1982 when the US Mint started producing commemorative coins again when they issued the George Washington half dollar, I decided to
collect all the commems they issued. That only lasted a year or two when they began issuing a myriad of sets, multiple programs every year, gold, etc. I gave up and stopped buying the commems altogether. There is an important lesson in there.
For me, it has been much the same with DC's stuff. For example, I might have been in for $400 or $500 a year for the rest of my life to keep sets complete, but due to the plethora of coins and the availability issues, I have mostly stopped buying any if it.
None of this is criticism of DC or anyone who has ever bought his stuff. No one should feel a need to defend or justify their own collecting interests or resources. I am just sharing my own personal experiences. I am happy if people continue to collect his coins and it is fun to see what comes out next.
It is obvious that you are having fun doing what you do, and I not only admire that, I am envious of it. But oh how I wish the "plan" could be tweaked just a bit.
For example, I happily bought your first art plaque several years ago, but then no more followed until a year or two ago when you issued three at once. I could not afford all three at one time so I bought one of them. The other two sold out and because of the very small editions it is very unlikely that I will see them offered anywhere again. My collection of those will never be complete
I certainly am not telling you how to run your very successful business, but I am just letting you know what frustrates me personally.
A very INTERESTING observation. I've never been a Carr fan, but the dichotomy of attitudes between Chinese coin makers and the Carr coins is interesting. Part of it may be sheer volume. But people DESPISE Chinese repro coins even when sold as repros.
If Dan Carrs name was Lee or Chan I would still by his coins ! His coins are Top quality were as the Chinese coins in most cases are not even silver and poor quality !
jmlanzaf please do show me a example of a Chinese coin !
JBK please help me understand your wanting Dan Carr to cut his production so you can afford his coins ?
Dan Lee Chan wouldn't need a press as each coin would be struck with just Shaolin Kung Fu
I love DCs work, but have only bought a few. I have struggled to stay focused on my specific collecting goals and just don't need another tangent. Just FYI, if I knew where to buy one of the level 1 Chinese counterfeits (the ones that cost $3-400 in China) I might buy one of those too. People who think they've seen Chinese counterfeits when they see the $2 stuff on eBay, haven't seen the real ones. I sat in the ANA seminar they offered years ago and listened to all the dealers in the room cursing as each slide came up.
Dan Carr can and will do whatever he wants with his production, but it seems pretty obvious that the more variety that is produced the fewer people will be able to afford it all. I even gave the example of three art plaques being made and listed simultaneously - a prohibitively expensive proposition for me personally. With all due respect, what is there to not understand?
I think there are more Dan Carr collectors than some suggest. Many of Dan's pieces have mintages in the 100s and rarely come up for sale at all, not even one for months at a time. I'm not sure this would be the situation if the majority was hoarded by say 3 deep pockets.
I think one question from Dan's perspective is how many collectors there are that want everything vs. collectors that want some of his things and how to optimize the best satisfaction. If most of his collectors want everything then making a limited set that most people can afford makes sense. If most of his collectors are happy with a few of his releases here and there, making more variety may make sense. I'm guessing most of his collectors are not trying to get everything and are happy with the variety. Of course, that does make it more difficult for those that want everything as you say, but it's may be a balance of collector preferences at play.
Here's one.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I've pretty much completed my DC Collection, unless some new issue really moves me.
Crazy, huh ?
When I email or see Daniel at a coin show there's one item , a 1 of 30 mintage, that I'm eager to buy but its not for sale. None of those 30 pieces have ever been offered.
For 2018 I've decided to take a break from buying error coins, and fantasy coins. I want to focus on building a new garage, and replacing my sad old deck.
Lindy
Have you considered colonials like Fugios? Given the relatively inexpensive cost of low grade colonials, this could be an interesting area.
That is possible. I'll do some Braided Hair large cents and/or half cents at some point and see how those come out first.
Understood. But I will say that things don't always turn out the way I intended. For those plaques, I made the original models. But due to the large size, striking them was not feasible so I had them cast at a small local foundry instead. They did not entirely turn out the way I wanted so I quit having them made. Then I tried again a couple years later with a larger format. Those were not entirely to my liking either. I have since contemplated a couple ways to make them entirely myself, and I may try that at some point (but anything like that will be a different format than what I've already issued).