Toned Coin Pricing....
TonerGuy
Posts: 590 ✭✭✭
For those of you that are true toning enthusiasts - how do you determine if an asking price is reasonable ?
Is it a gut feeling or do investigate the reasonableness of the premium being asked over a non-toned coin of the same grade ?
And if you're a dealer how do you decide what to price your toned coins at ?
There is no "Grey Sheet" for toned coins. Even closed auction prices on Ebay dont provide that much guidance... every toned coin is unique is many different ways.
Or do you just try to buy toned coins at an auction so at least you know that there was at least one person who thought the coin was worth almost as much as you did ?
And dealers, do you just add a normal mark up over what you paid in line with a mark up for non-toned coins ? How do you figure out what is a reasonable price ?
Here's an example (not my coin) of a nicely (I think) toned Franklin -- is the price too high too low or just right... seems to be about a 10x premium on the coin....
Comments
I tend to use a combination of previous sales of similarly toned coins and a feeling based on how nice it is (average to above average toning might be 1.5x-4x over a non-toned example; meanwhile, something unique would be way more).
While every toned coin is a bit unique, some colors and patterns are more available and thus can be a bit easier to judge premiums based on prior sales.
I actually dont really care about toning but thats me I guess I am to cheap to pay extra on something I dont know I can get my money back on.
I think it’s a gut feeling more than anything. After seeing a lot of toned coins sell you can get a feel for what similar ones have brought in the past. With truly spectacular examples, it can be very hard to guess because 2+ people can go nuts, as we saw with the last Northern Lights sale. This doesn’t happen with other coins because there are usually comparable alternatives so if the price gets too high you can just wait for another one.
For the listed example, I guessed that coin would bring about $300-$350 at auction before peeking at the price.
I often have two numbers in my head when evaluating toned coins - what I think it’s worth (i.e. what I think it should sell for) relative to others I’ve seen and what it’s worth to me (i.e. how much I am willing to pay). Sometimes the latter is more than the former as I am occasionally willing to “lose” money on a coin that speaks to me and if I don’t think I can find a similar one.
Mostly gut feeling. All depends on how much I want the coin
As for the 1958-D Franklin posted I think the asking price is WAY too high. If the reverse looked like the obverse then I’d say the asking price was still a tad high.
The reverse has negative eye appeal and sort of offsets the obverse.
Absolute max on that coin should be $300.
Some one told me that color or colors count.
For example on Morgan dollars Green = Money
That is not an attractively toned coin to me and I would "Just say no." It is difficult to see the qualities that an MS66 coin should have with the unevenness of the color on that coin. Naturally JMHO.
I like the coin in question, but will not opine as to whether or not the price is appropriate. However, for my own valuation of coins, I typically go by experience and reckoning. It isn't perfect and certainly wouldn't be the choice of all, but it works just fine for me.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If it is a Wondercoin, just buy it. If it is just really nice, price matters.
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
As for the coin in question - this is why I have a hard time purchasing certified toned coins - the mark up seem to be exorbitant. Not being familiar with toned Franklins, to me that could be a $150 coin, a $300 coin or even a $700 coin. I dont know.
This is why I try to find raw toners without much a premium and send them in for certification. It is much much less expensive and rarely am I buried in a coin.
I can price toned Peace $ all day long. Those I track religiously. But for other denominations I am lost. I kinda do what @U1chicago does - I try to formulate the value/price.
Everyone is saying coins are losing their luster but the toned coin market prices really arent being affected.
IMHO, that coin linked to by the OP is nice but not $700 nice.
I'm like some of the other responses on this thread, I look at previous prices on similarly toned coins, plus sometimes it's a gut feel. When it's a truly good one that you haven't seen before (nice toning on a key date), jump if the price is right to you!
10-4,
My Instagram picturesErik
My registry sets
I have paid some hefty premium for color/tone..it really depends on the coin and individual...some sellers are awfully proud of their coins.
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That's a great looking Franklin. I think 10x might be a little too aggressive though. I could easily see 5x on that.
The high premiums result in increased AT.... why not just do your own and save the money?? Cheers, RickO
I do do my own... I buy my toners raw and send them in for certification. No huge premiums paid and nice mark ups when you do sell... so much more profit than just buying blast white coins...
Ditto on all comments
BHNC #203
Interesting - when I posted this thread the coin was listed for $700...
Now its been raised to $850... lol
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-50C-Franklin-Half-Dollar-NGC-66/173067068329?epid=170442209&hash=item284b99e3a9:g:aCQAAOSwWLBaST9m&rmvSB=true
Okay - who's coin is it ?
So a follow up question -- who here has been buried in a toned coin ? More than $100 ? More than $1000 ?
Recently I went to local B&M and met with a very experience dealer - I mentioned that I collect toned Peace $ so he trots out a 1925 MS65 example he bought at Long Beach and offers it to me for $2200 - I chuckled. I had to ask what he paid -- $1800 was his response. I told him that it might be a $700 coin to someone like me - maybe a $1000-$1200 to someone that really wants a nice toned Peace $ but I seriously doubt he will ever get his money back on the coin... needless to say he wasnt very experienced in the toned coin market...
For the Franklin, someone (not me) must have seen this post and is having a little fun with it. I saw something similar recently where an error coin was mentioned in a post and suddenly the price went up by a few hundred thousand (I don't think that helped sell the coin
).
In terms of being buried, I have one Morgan that may qualify (over $100 but under $1,000). I like that one, so it does not worry me too much.
Wonder if Adrian Crane would care to comment?
I have a difficult time understanding the grading/pricing of nicely toned coins and the willingness of collectors to pay the steep premiums, ensuring that in the future they'll have to pay more for other coins. it strikes me as a lack of patience and discipline simply because the cash is available.
1958-D Franklin Half Dollars with attractive Mint Set tone aren't that hard to find, I wish some members would post their coins to this thread.
looking at the OP's Franklin, to my eye it has an attractive, clean obverse and a mundane, banged up reverse. I would call it an MS65 non-FB. has anyone looked at the pop report for this date in MS65-66FB??? it's about 3,000 coins at PCGS alone, so I would call it common and readily available. the problem starts in the grading room when it gets market graded +1* by NGC. then, since it's pretty, a seller prices it at double the MS67 price. it's ridiculous.
anyone who checks eBay regularly sees stuff like this all to often, sellers listing items for outrageous prices and rolling the auction over and over, hoping for a buyer
One of the biggest mistakes collectors make is getting the feel for toning vs TONING. The former can end up costing you a ton of money.
Also consider some issues don't come TONED as readily as others. When those come around I tend to pounce.
Also I like to make sure the coin is all there grade wise in addition to being TONED. I got in trouble not doing so early In my numismatic endeavors buying color with weak technicals.
As far as the right price to pay? It's like porn you know it when you see it.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I can tell you that the toned coin market is doing very well. Strong money has always been paid for the shining stars of any particular series and I don’t see that changing.
Happy hunting
I’ll be back with you soon my friend, Joe
Here's my 58-D. They certainly do come nice.
I like nice toners, but it's easy enough to get burned. Now, more than ever before, a point or more of the grade on the holder is solely due to the toning (figured as part of eye appeal). Part of the price premium is therefore already built-in. Usually, an additional "toning premium" is heaped on top of this. It's sort of like paying for the same thing twice.
Tastes (and grading standards) wander around over the decades. A technically solid coin will give you at least some protection.
Gut feeling from experience and also knowing the wants of your client base and what they are willing to pay. Some also play the game of pitting extremely high prices to see if they get a bite then lower the price incrementally until sells or you're at your the lowest you're willing to take and let it sit until the right buyer find a it.
I think the "wacky" pricing is one of the fun aspects about toners. I can't tell you how many times I've bought a toner for cheap.on eBay etc and killed when I sold it to a client or new buyer. But I've also sold on tight margins too. Toners are fun..