Fradulent ebay seller - beware!
Raufus
Posts: 7,030 ✭✭✭✭✭
I purchased a graded modern from gltesla2321.
It was never shipped nor delivered. My emails went unanswered.
The seller cancelled the transaction w/o notice.
Beware.
Land of the Free because of the Brave!
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Comments
Thanks for the heads-up !!!
Absolutely!
should of at least explained themselves. I had scammer only reach out because they had a rating drop. Blamed me. After 3 fake tracking numbers a six messages unanswered. I found that a little odd. Must be kids
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
I emailed them very nicely twice w/no reply before they just cancelled it.
Are you out money? If not, it's not really a scam but maybe an inventory problem. Their customer service needs help, obviously, but that doesn't make it a scam.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
It was the Boys Town 2017-W $5 gold Unc PCGS MS70. This is the now low mintage "key" for the $5 gold commem series. (Please don't laugh classics folks, "it's all modern junk" is not the point of the post.)
The prices on this coin are rising. I'm sure that they cancelled so that they could keep it or get more for it.
By not answering any of my emails and stringing me along for days, if I now want another I'll have to pay substantially more. So, yes it cost me.
Further, there is no excuse whatsoever to not reply back to my emails.
As to customer service, the seller appears to be an individual seller w/less than 100 transactions.
When one advertises a product at a given price, sells that product and does not deliver w/o explanation it's a fraud in my book.
His customer service is bad, oh well. What else is new nowadays?
You got your refund, move on and don't worry about him. How long have these been out? Is this something you could have bought cheaper a week ago? Two weeks ago?
I had the same happened to me a month ago and I watched and sure enough the seller relisted the same coin and I bought it AGAIN for cheaper and he did ship....Never heard so much as a peep on the first go around.
Hope you find another to your liking and price (put a WTB on the BST).
bob
That is a noble concept but it is not FRAUD. Please be careful how you use the word.
Fraud must be proved by showing that the defendant's actions involved five separate elements:
(1) a false statement of a material fact,
(2) knowledge on the part of the defendant that the statement is untrue,
(3) intent on the part of the defendant to deceive the alleged victim,
(4) justifiable reliance by the alleged victim on the statement, and
(5) injury to the alleged victim as a result.
If you want to be bored to tears, read 18 U.S. Code Chapter 47 That is just the tip of the iceberg of boring legalese.
Poor listing, poor response, poor overall experience, not fraud.
Libel: to publish in print (including pictures), writing or broadcast through radio, television or film, an untruth about another which will do harm to that person or his/her reputation, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others.
Again, if you want to be bored to tears, 28 U.S. Code § 4101
See that you dinged him on feedback. Hope he learned his lesson.
I don't consider it fraud, just a bad seller. His feedback will now let others know.
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
Your comment perfectly matches your avatar!
It's also the fact it ties your time & money up. Like AUandAG said..you got your refund back...now it's time to move on. EBay can check to see if the item was shipped and can check the tracking, they got me my money back very fast, and as usual life goes on.
After he got his well deserved negative feedback (only the 5th I've ever left in about 16 years) he rudely replied back and said he did not have the coin.
Thus, by advertising a coin which he didn't have it would seem to b fraud by your definition.
He also updated the listing as shipped days ago. He listed a tracking number as well. Whenever I checked it only noted tracking number created but never shipped. Listing as shipped was false as well.
In the decade that I've been here I've greatly appreciated the heads up on deadbeat sellers. I'm sure that some of them have saved me lots of hassle. I was only trying to return the favor. I won't make that mistake again.
.
No issue w getting money back.
Definite issue w opportunity cost as another will now be more expensive.
I noted additional details re shipping in a post a few minutes ago.
As noted, was just trying to save other forum members some grief.
I appreciate the legalese.
Frankly, I wish PCGS would kill these threads. They do sometimes appear libelous to me and, sooner or later, someone is going to take action to protect their reputation. I've actually complained several times to PCGS moderators about threads like this that cavalierly throw around terms like "scam", "fraud", "crook", etc.
Sometimes, it's just a mistake, folks.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
And sometimes it's fraud. In this case the false statements meet (1) above in the legalese which you so like.
When one advertises a coin they don't have and says they have shipped it when they haven't and does not respond to multiple, polite inquiries it's not a simple mistake, it's fraud. In this case it also has a significant monetary cost as another would be more expensive.
Personally I've greatly appreciated threads warning of rotten sellers.
I can understand the upset and anger; many people are tempted to pull a Schwartzenegger.
@Raufus..... I agree with your assessment and appreciate the warning. Cheers, RickO
Thanks RickO. Happy Holidays to you and yours.
If it quacks like a duck...
To be legal fraud, it has to meet ALL 5 ELEMENTS, not just one.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Well, it certainly seems to meet all 5.
I really don't want to argue about it, but you don't have an obvious injury (5), you can't prove the original statement was intentionally untrue (2) , or intent to deceive (3).
I've accidentally listed 5 items when I only have 4, sometimes because of the way certain eBay relist functions work. I've sometimes lost items in inventory. Now, I always communicate openly and honestly with the customer when something like that happens. But, bad business practices aren't necessarily fraud.
You are upset that you aren't getting something you wanted. You are mad at the seller. That is all right and good. His business practices, at the very least, need reform. You want to warn other people about the individual. All understandable. But I worry about casual use of words with legal ramifications being thrown around. That's all.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Good lord!
Injury is substantially higher replacement cost which would not have otherwise been incurred.
He flat out said he didn't have the coin. I think he likely had it but when prices went up quickly he held or sold to another. He said was shipped but it was not.
Listing an item u don't have or won't sell and taking full payment then marking shipped when it's not is intentionally deceiving.
My guess is in court a jury of my peers would agree.
I've dealt w all manner of issues w sellers. My feedback left is almost always stellar. If there is an issue and the seller tells me and makes it right no problem.
This guy is a fraud.
I assume u r an attorney and I appreciate your point about being technically accurate.
I do think most would think him a total fraud which he is. This is not a high volume seller w an inventory issue. He is a very low volume, unprofessional fraud.
In the end I am just trying to warn others of a deadbeat seller as many others have kindly taken the time to do in the past.
I think that I and many others have been spared much grief as a result.
fraud is taking your money, keeping your money and not sending you your purchase.
Refunding your money with no explanation is simply poor customer service. Note that your seller did not break any laws or violate any ebay policy. Cancelling and refunding a sale is an ebay option.
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
Raufus
I also appreciate the warning. Thank you
Obviously one can't keep someone's money when paying w PayPal - not that some don't try.
To me listing an item u don't have or won't sell is fraudulent.
Saying an tem was shipped when it was not is outright lying.
Again,,. Trying to alert others to this deadbeat seller.
By all means buy from him if you'd like.
You can call him out for what he did do. You can warn people about your experience. I would just stop short of anything potentially libelous. He's a small fish. Libel a big fish and see if you hear from their attorneys.
[On the bright side, they are more likely to sue PCGS than you! Deeper pockets, after all.]
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Thus is so utterly absurd.
Perhaps u can take up his case pro bono.
I stand by what I said 100.
Perhaps u can take advantage of some of the grest deals he offers as well.
Most welcome. Glad some find it helpful.
That would be the definition of legal malpractice. I'm a chemist.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
a fraudster is a thief. Where's the theft?
you bought a $5 Boys Town for 799 (well below market), he cancelled it and sold it for $999 eight days later. Sellers remorse is no different than buyers remorse. Not a happy occasion for the other party but not the definition of fraud.
He was obviously willing to take the chance on the neg for $200. Don't feel bad, I just bought six ASE tubes at 323 ea. after bonus bucks but the seller cancelled and refunded my money. Some days peanuts, some days shells.
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
I figured that the fraudster had just sold for more but I didn't see the auction. Away and using only my phone. I don't always have the best of luck w/the the EBay app's search function. I missed where he resold it.
As to "seller's remorse" I don't buy it at all. Too bad. U honor your word. You honor the deal. Someone earlier mentioned something about ones good name. One earns ones good name in part by honoring a deal - even if it occasionally costs u a bit. I the end it's not only the right thing to do but it's the cost effective thing to do as well. I'm obviously not talking about a listing error where the decimal point was off.
I've bought and sold moderns on and off Ebay for 10 years. I've sold some which were on the way up steeply only to see them up substantially before I ship. (Though i usually ship w/in 24 hrs). In those instances too bad for me. Not for a second would I even contemplate backing out.
Again, it did cost me. If this fraudster had not strung me along for so many days I could have bought substantially cheaper than I can now. Instead, it appears that instead of shipping he falsely noted it as shipped and ignored my emails while he tried to get more. 100℅ fraud in my book.
I certainly hope that his richly deserved negative w/1 of 5 stars costs him far more than the $200 that he made hosing me.
I also hope that it saves others from the same experience that I had.
If you need a bone broken let me know.
I just read through all this. Sorry to see what you went through Raufus. I believe Justin will likely block this eBayer from doing business with him. I am delighted you were able to recently put a deal together on a FS coin with Justin. And, if you still desire a non-FS coin for roughly the price this EBay seller cancelled you at, just let me privately and I can try to get you a coin around that level. This offer for you only
.
Wondercoin.
Hi Mitch,
I think that Justin and everyone else would do very well to block this eBayer. In the nearly 16 years that I've been on Ebay this is one of the absolute worst that I've dealt with.
Great doing business with Justin. Just like you - truly a pleasure to deal with.
Thanks very much for your most kind offer. Will send PM now.
Happy Holidays to you and your family,
R
R.
I am happy I was able to help you get the BT coin today at the price you thought you had in the first place.
. Enjoy it! Wondercoin.
Thanks so much Wondercoin!!! I am most appreciative. More than kind of you.