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Stupid eBay and blatant Shill Sellers!
Wabbit2313
Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
I collect Redfield's so I notice when an MS-66 comes around, and around, and around...........
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Current auction:
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Past auctions from same dude!
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His awesome feedback:
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Comments
That looks like a "live" (real) auction - I suppose those prior high bids did not meet the reserve?
And he adds 20% on top. The place is a total scam.
These are the fairly new "live auctions" that ebay lets happen. Basically, there is another auction happening somewhere live, and they let ebay bidders bid on them. There are ALWAYS high bidder premiums, and they usually don't sell to the ebay bidders. I just avoid them.
It is clearly not selling elsewhere. The dude is shilling them and then relisting because he keeps winning his own auctions.
You migjt be right, but the ID on eBay might just be the one used for entering on-site bids.
He is still bad news, though, based on that feedback
BTW, eBay used to have this eBay Live stuff. They stopped it for a while but obviously reinstated ir.
80% feedback is very low.
Only one bidder on this sold/relisted item?
Probably only one ebay bidder, because no ebay bidders want to waste their time with it. And again, it is actually being sold at a live auction, not ebay. I would imagine the in house rules have a reserve, or lets the house bid, or something, so it really isn't selling. It just keeps going back up for auction until they find an idiot that wants it for a crazy price.
80% feedback? I never seen anything like this before. Thank you for your alert
m***l (8) never left seller any feedback; wondered if it's the 2nd or 3rd account.
That looks 100% not proper even for eBay policy. You can’t have someone bidding on your own item. Fake bidding is wrong. Creating artificial market to scam unknown collector.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
Depending on State laws, bidding on your own item is okay at a live auction. Shills are legal here in Nevada at live auctions. See it all the time on coin bidding. Same one or two in the back of the room bidding at every auction and then going to dinner at the end of the day with the auctioneer. The only auction I attend anymore are the State unclaimed property (vaults) auctions and the Police auctions of unclaimed stolen property. Those do seem legit and I've snagged a few good items.
bob
I am NOT associated with any auction house anywhere
I haven't bought from this seller, but I have bought from auction houses that do live auctions that allow ebay users to bid. When you look at any of those live auction results, any and all bids are posted as the same ebay user when the bids were placed from places other then ebay (Proxibid, Liveauctioneers, Auctionzip, onsite, etc).
I used Proxibid, and won an 1800 $1. It was the only item I bid on and won in that auction, and my bidding was done on Proxibid. If you looked at the item on ebay, the winning bidder was m***l(8), same as the above 'users', and also listed as the winning bidder of every lot in that live auction. It also looked like I was bidding against myself (like the about bidder list).
As for the same item being relisted over and over after showing as sold on ebay, it's probably because an in-house reserve was not met. In these instances, ebay is strictly a selling medium, and the auction house does not have to abide by ebay rules, but before you can bid, there is a disclaimer you must agree to, which states that the auction house's rules are the rules of the auction, and not ebay.
On the surface, it definitely looks like shill bidding, but I honestly don't believe it is. It's just that ebay has changed the way the general public thinks auctions are run, and those who have not participated in an ebay live auction don't realize how it works.
If you doubt what I'm saying, which I can understand, it's easy to verify. Find an upcoming live auction on ebay, see if it is also on another auction site, find something you might like to buy, and place a bid. Note the date and time of your bid, and see how it shows up on ebay when the auction is done (may also work for pre-bids).
Unfortunately it happens online and at live auctions. I've been in the presence of people bragging about being the one driving the costs up. Its quite irritating to say the least. The last live auction I was at I was bidding on a cc Morgan, it went over my $200 bid so I stopped. Well the idiot who won it then decided not to buy it protesting that "its too much.". An obvious shill bidder. The auctioneer let him off the hook and I paid the $200.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
I think the scenario offered by @Beefer518 is probably accurate.
That is not one bidder (you can't bid against yourself on ebay) on the results, that is a genetic ID that is used to register the bids (presumably in person or via other bidding platforms).
This auctioneer has a high reserve that is not bring met.
Along with that 80% feedback, these conditions would make me just stay away.
If he's winning his own auctions then he's also paying final valuation fees on each of them. Ebay "Live" auctions are a joke, avoid them and their vague shipping arrangements and their high buyer's fee.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Wow... that screams 'Stay Away' to me..... Real live auctions are bad enough... this guy seems to be a super scammer.... Cheers, RickO
No, I think Beefer is correct. You CAN'T HAVE ONLY ONE BIDDER or the bid doesn't increase. Even if the same person bids 20 different times, there has to be a SECOND BIDDER to move the price.
This guy's feedback says "stay away". The auction results are probably legitimate. See Beefer's comments above.
I got outbid on a coin. I hate that.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
CAN'T HAPPEN. The number won't move without a second bidder. Beefer is correct.
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Given Beefer's correct explanation of the auction results, I think it would be more fair to change the title of this thread. While the seller is not one of eBay's finest, eBay is not stupid and there are no shill bidders.
If he's winning his own auctions then he's also paying final valuation fees on each of them. Completed auctions result in FVFs regardless of who won the auction.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Worry about your own threads, I'll take care of mine. If you could read, you can see MANY others saying they were shilled. Shilling is happening on Proxibid all the time and it is also happening on this Redfield, and eBay is stupid for allowing this foolishness on their site.
The fact that he thinks the 82-S Redfield in 66 is worth more than $675 (Plus 20%) is the most laughable part. I should find this dude and sell him some Redfields.
That really is unnecessary insulting. My request was friendly and your initial assault on both eBay and the seller was mistaken.
There is NO evidence of shilling on this Redfield. Those bids did NOT come from the same person. Please read Beefer's excellent explanation. If there was a shill bid being placed, the shill account would be alternating with real bids. One bidder cannot move the price of an auction at all. You can't bid against yourself.
There's no evidence that he's winning his own auctions. More likely, the (too high) reserve was not met. I'm not sure how eBay shows sold vs. unsold auctions in the live auction format. But you could only have one bidder for ALL the bids if the bids were actually live bids from the proxy service.
That's why I said "if he's winning."
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I don't like it and wont bid on this kind of auction.
One other thing about the live auctions; EVERY live auction house that uses the ebay platform seems to have a low feedback rating on ebay. However, when you look at the same auction house's ratings on the other sites (Auctionzip, Proxibid, etc), their rating are high, and in some cases excellent. The reason is as I stated earlier, ebay bidders don't understand why they are paying a buyer's premium, expect their items in 2-3 days, will get little to no support from ebay, and feel they have been taken advantage of. They will then leave the negative feedback with the feeling that they had no other choice. When in reality, if they had actually read the terms and conditions of getting into a live bidding auction, both ebay's and the auction house's, they would see that the auction house did nothing 'wrong' in the world of auctions.
I'm not saying that shill bidding doesn't happen, nor am I saying that every auction house is on the up and up, but as a whole, I find auction houses to be safer to buy from then some unknown person on the internet using a made up name with no way to contact them. I do buy from live auctions, ebay, and other sources, I just make sure I understand the modis operandi of the seller/selling format before I get involved.
I have a friend that I go to local auctions with. He's a little weird, but a good guy. We have different interests, so it's rare for use to be interested in the same item. We also see the same folks at the different auctions, so we know who is there for what types of items. We have seen numerous times where Bidder A dislikes Bidder B, and knows that Bidder B has a penchant for Lot #X, and bids up the item to the point where Bidder B is going to have to pay way over value to get the item. And even though most of these folks are 'professional auction attendees', auction fever hits, and they pay the stupid money to win. As I have never knowingly seen the auction house, or their agent, shill bid, I have certainly seen malicious bidding by one bidder to cause another bidder to overpay. That may be a form of shill bidding, and if you were bidding on that item online and not in house, you'd jump to the conclusion of shill bidding by the house.
I'm not naive (thank you Evian water for making me never have to think about how to spell that), and am aware that shill bidding is a real thing. But I also know that genuine brick & mortar auction houses don't want to risk their license to get an extra couple of bids on an item consigned to them - it's easier to put a reserve on it for the seller.
And for those of you that are primarily ebay buyers - how many times have you gotten caught up in auction fever, and bid over what you wanted to bid, just to win? Why wouldn't you think that the person that bid against you and won might be subject to that same emotional bidding?
It all just a fact of not paying retail, and trying to get a deal through an auction.
Can’t we just agree that dealers are dirtier than politicians, lawyers, doctors and musicians ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
You are really wasting your time just flagging me for no reason. I flagged your insults and slander. The moderators might care about that. Random comments? You're more likely to get admonished for wasting their time.
Pretty thin skin considering i simply suggested you not libel businesses in your posts. But, lesson learned, I won't try to give you friendly advice anymore
Happy Holidays!
I flagged you for hijacking my thread and scolding me for how I choose to word my complaint. I bought 300K of coins on eBay last year, and I am correct that they allow shilling way too often, only to collect the fees.
I have now removed the flags since you understand how childish it is to flag people for their opinions. Perhaps you should follow your own advice.
In the spirit of the season, I have removed the flags. However, if you can tolerate one other little comment: there is a difference between "opinions" and "insults and slander". One is not actionable, the other could be.
Happy Holidays!
Joe
Doctors? By the time you've included everyone on the list, is there anyone left who is "clean"?
They can have more than a single eBay account as long as they have different e-address & account info therefore the same seller can bid up his / her own item.
That is correct. I have 2 myself. But you have to have TWO DIFFERENT USER NAMES. Look at the bids, they all came from the SAME account. Not the same bidder using different accounts, but the SAME account. If that were shill bidding - separate from what Beefer explained - there would be alternating bids from at least two DIFFERENT user names. You can't bid against yourself from the SAME account. Even if you up your bid later, the bid amount doesn't move until someone else bids against you.
Why put up with the bs? just move on
The shill master got it up to $805 this time. Let's see if this is finally enough for the scammer to sell it.
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I have lost many auctions to possible shills.
I don’t really worry much about it. Whether it’s a shill or determined bidder matter of speculation.
If c it continually w a specific seller will not bid on their stuff any more. If u know how price coins just put in your min bid. What I don’t want is bid war w some collector, etc. just trying buy it right. Let him get what he wants, he is out of picture bc spent money, now field open for. Sort reminds me coin club days where I would wait till tail end of auction lots nice pickups for me bc they ran out of money.
My family member who lives with us can easily bids up on our my behalf....
True, but that is NOT what's happening with this auction.
You forgot collectors and LE.
Look at the bid history on this item; different auction house:
https://www.ebay.com/bfl/viewbids/122822077335?item=122822077335&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2565
It cannot be discerned from the bid history whether shill bidding occurred or whether it occurred through ebay.
Reading the guys feedback would be enough for me to stay away from any auction he had going, it's a no brainer.
He is also listing this on Auctionzip where it says it sold for $805. Let's pretend that price is correct, someone just bought this coin for $960 plus shipping, including the 20%. I would love to sell that person some coins.
I imagine we will see it listed for sale again in a couple of weeks.
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