Black tiny spots on an old gold Saints. Please render your expertise. Thank you.
Paradisefound
Posts: 8,621 ✭✭✭✭✭
I see about 5 very tiny black with dark red under tone spots on an old gold Saints. I tried to google as well as inquiring the old forum threads to no avail. Please share your expertise so I can decide whether to purchase this particular one. Thank you in advance.
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Comments
Black/Dark red spots on gold are fairly common. They are usually 'copper spots' and can be removed 'conserved' by acid (usually muriatic acid as it is a milder acid). BUT, without seeing the coin, there is no way to be sure they are copper spots.
Best thing to do is nothing. If they are not rare dates the spots mean very little. If it is a rare date, any conservation of it should only be done by a professional.
common result, over time, of other metals that are present in not pure gold. $20 gold is 90% pure and 10% not pure. alloys are added to normally soft gold to give it hardness. The alloys can discolor over time having no affect on the total gold content of the coin.
Don't know that I would treat any coin with very caustic muriatic acid. I do use it to etch concrete.
If you understand what is coming, then you can duck. If not, then you get sucker-punched. - Martin Armstrong
Muriatic acid should only be handled by those who know what it is and the dangers it presents.
Copper spots (and it sounds as if that is what you see) are not uncommon on the older Saints... Advice above regarding professional restoration (if desired) is correct. It is also likely that traces of the spots will remain.
Cheers, RickO
Muriatic (hydrochloric) is not a mild acid. It is not an oxidizing acid like nitric or sulfuric so it is less likely to oxidize (dissolve) metal and therefore etch the surface, but it is NOT mild. It is one of the 6 strong inorganic acids and should be handled with care.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Will PCGS provide this service?
@Paradisefound ....PCGS does provide a restoration service..... Though I have not personally used it, I have heard good reports...I am sure you can find the fees on their site or call customer service. Cheers, RickO
There are three basic types of spots we commonly see on all gold coins. I've been told they are dealt with in two ways. Before going on, I have never heard of Muriatic acid used but apparently, it must work as it does not affect gold. Heck, depending what the black debris, Nitric and Sulfuric acid should work too. Don't try this without a fume hood.
The most common spots are called copper spots. The other spots are strike thru's - usually black. After a while, many of the black spots develop a reaction ring of various hues of copper. I've been told that all of these can be removed easily by those who know what they are doing. In cases where the debris is removed, a depression remains. Otherwise, there is no trace that the coin was conserved. I have never heard any instructor go into much more detail than is posted here as the methods are treated as trade secrets and AFAIK are only passed around on the QT. It is a sure thing that many members posting on CU could educate all of us. Unfortunately, I cannot.
What is AFAIK mean?
As Far As I Know, it means As Far As I Know.........JMO
If the coin is original and decent for the grade (ie CACable) such spots usually don't matter. CAC will still sticker them. Therefore, the potential purchase of it should depend on whether it's CAC quality or not. Such spotted coins when not stickered bring discounts in the market place. Don't ask me to explain it.....just the way it is. If the spots are very tiny on original surfaces, who cares? I had an NGC MS65 $20 Lib back in 2008 that must have had a few dozen black specks on each side of the coin. It had the measles. Yet, it stickered based on the very original, orange-glow surfaces. Huge premiums between stickered MS 65 $5/$10/$20 Libs and unstickered ones. Most old-timers consider coppery spots on original surfaces to be a good thing. Some of Dr. Duckor's most impressive Gem rare date Saints had obvious copper spots in the fields. So what? They were still the most original and finest available.
Liz at JJ Teaparty once told me that generally the generic early gold(Namely Saints and Liberty Head $20) traded as bullion is when spots come into play. It can mean a 5%± deduction in sale price.