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Hey! Look at the Bust Dime I just slightly overpaid for at Stack's auction!

jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum



All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

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Comments

  • KkathylKkathyl Posts: 3,762 ✭✭✭✭✭

    looks good, the clashing on the reverse is pronounced and the 3 is noticeable higher. I like it and these are on the rise.

    Best place to buy !
    Bronze Associate member

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Kkathyl said:
    looks good, the clashing on the reverse is pronounced and the 3 is noticeable higher. I like it and these are on the rise.

    Good eye. Yes, I really like the strong clash of this die variety. But it also just looks so frosty...can't wait to get it in hand.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

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  • OldEastsideOldEastside Posts: 4,602 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice Clash, Nice Luster..........Congrats

    Steve

    Promote the Hobby
  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,402 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Not bad....I like it.

    It's been dipped 4 or 5 times though.

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DoubleEagle59 said:
    Not bad....I like it.

    It's been dipped 4 or 5 times though.

    Show me a bust coin that hasn't been dipped once or twice... Doesn't bother me.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @afford said:
    I am not a fan, sorry.

    Well, it's not as nice as the 67 CAC in your collection. :wink:

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭

    that coin should be designated "Properly/Improperly Cleaned" and not in a straight grade holder, it's embarrassing.

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  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @afford said:
    Reason being that I am not a fan:
    the black schmaltz that is remaining is the remnants of a cleaning, yeah I know dipping is fine for most, but it was dipped or something else maybe washed etc to remove the stuff between the devices, what ever left, the spots in the field and chunk by the two stars and in the denticles is what wasn't moving thru gentle actions.
    The coin is completely untoned which as you know is impossible for a silver coin from 1833 imho. And since we know it has been dipped, that it is another sign that the toning was removed as its by product.
    And now you know everything the I know.
    Sorry again

    No offense, but I already knew everyting you know.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 29,789 ✭✭✭✭✭

    agreed, that is some nice clashing and luster.

  • TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @afford said:
    Reason being that I am not a fan:
    the black schmaltz that is remaining is the remnants of a cleaning, yeah I know dipping is fine for most, but it was dipped or something else maybe washed etc to remove the stuff between the devices, what ever left, the spots in the field and chunk by the two stars and in the denticles is what wasn't moving thru gentle actions.
    The coin is completely untoned which as you know is impossible for a silver coin from 1833 imho. And since we know it has been dipped, that it is another sign that the toning was removed as its by product.
    And now you know everything the I know.
    Sorry again

    schmaltz
    /SHmälts,SHmôlts/
    noun
    informal

    noun: schmaltz; noun: schmalz; plural noun: schmalzes

    excessive sentimentality, especially in music or movies.

    I think you meant:

    schmutz
    /SHmo͝ots/
    noun
    North Americaninformal

    noun: schmutz; noun: shmutz
    dirt or a similar unpleasant substance.
    "these handy wipes are always close by for swiping schmutz off my shoes, or cleaning up coffee spills

    originally, both, from Yiddish

    Frank

    BHNC #203

  • UnknownUnknown
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  • WmwoodWmwood Posts: 102 ✭✭

    I love it. That clashing is incredible.

  • CharlotteDudeCharlotteDude Posts: 3,209 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017 12:39PM

    Nice clash marks, but to me, the fields, cheek/luster don't look like what I'd envision a '65 looking like. Dipped and somewhat stripped?

    Got Crust....y gold?
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CharlotteDude said:
    Nice clash marks, but to me, the fields, cheek/luster don't look like what I'd envision a '65 looking like. Dipped and somewhat stripped?

    Probably dipped. 99.99999% of bust coins are dipped. I don't think really stripped at all. That frostiness looks pretty sharp. Harsh cleaning would have left duller, grayer surfaces.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

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  • MercuryMercury Posts: 1,052 ✭✭✭✭

    I like it. Problems or not.

    Collecting Peace Dollars and Modern Crap.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Overall, a nice looking coin.... some grunge in the recesses.... Cheers, RickO

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @afford said:

    @Wmwood said:
    I love it. That clashing is incredible.

    I would not classify it as incredible clashing, you need to see some other dates and types like capped bust half dimes that have some incredible clashing i.e. the date or the banner completely visible in the fields as clear as day.

    I think it's the grade that makes the clashing stand out. I don't know that it's superior as clashing goes, but it is a fun feature of this die variety.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • BaleyBaley Posts: 22,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like it! Probably because my example of the variety is 4 or 5 points lower grade

    Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry

  • WmwoodWmwood Posts: 102 ✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @afford said:

    @Wmwood said:
    I love it. That clashing is incredible.

    I would not classify it as incredible clashing, you need to see some other dates and types like capped bust half dimes that have some incredible clashing i.e. the date or the banner completely visible in the fields as clear as day.

    I think it's the grade that makes the clashing stand out. I don't know that it's superior as clashing goes, but it is a fun feature of this die variety.

    Yeah, great grade, great clash and great picture. It all comes together beautifully.

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    As long as you like it, that is what matters. It sold for about 1/2 of PCGS price guide. Seems right for a 200 year old blast white coin.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Wabbit2313 said:
    As long as you like it, that is what matters. It sold for about 1/2 of PCGS price guide. Seems right for a 200 year old blast white coin.

    I like it for now...

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • WmwoodWmwood Posts: 102 ✭✭

    @afford said:

    @Wmwood said:
    I love it. That clashing is incredible.

    I would not classify it as incredible clashing, you need to see some other dates and types like capped bust half dimes that have some incredible clashing i.e. the date or the banner completely visible in the fields as clear as day.

    I like it, the clash frames the eagle very nicely.

    Personally I'm not hung up on if a coin is super toned or dipped (within reason), one of the LCS dips anything silver as soon as he gets a chance ( I think he just likes to dip). The other LCS won't touch a coin, it stays like it comes in. I find coins at both.

    I like this one.

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 9,232 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I had a very nice 1829 Bust dime certified as Ms61; technically a slider, it was an attractive example, bought and sold for around a grand. This one does not have all the gemmy characteristics, so probably did not cac or cross, as PCGS examples are worth more. Top dealers know what kind of look a given raw coin is what the two main grading services are looking for. An NGC gem.

  • topstuftopstuf Posts: 14,803 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I will never forget the awe I found in bust dimes when I first started out.

    And.... that's about all I can add to the thread. :/

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's not the high 3 variety. I'm not where I can check it for JR number.

    And I have lots of Bust Dimes that have not been dipped. :)

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DIMEMAN said:
    It's not the high 3 variety. I'm not where I can check it for JR number.

    And I have lots of Bust Dimes that have not been dipped. :)

    Stacks says JR-9.
    I still think they've all been dipped. Just depends on how obvious

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    I still think they've all been dipped. Just depends on how obvious

    A silly comment.

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017 3:58PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    Show me a bust coin that hasn't been dipped once or twice... Doesn't bother me.

    You are referencing ALL Bust coins?

    Lance, @lkeigwin, could start posting images right now and not finish until morning.

  • SmittysSmittys Posts: 9,876 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like it

    https://www.ebay.com/str/christyscoins
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Wabbit2313 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    Show me a bust coin that hasn't been dipped once or twice... Doesn't bother me.

    You are referencing ALL Bust coins?

    Lance, @lkeigwin, could start posting images right now and not finish until morning.

    All that would prove is that he has coins where the dipping isn't obvious. :smile:

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • PocketArtPocketArt Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice coin, congrats.

    OT- I was the under bidder on the 1803 Bust dime in this auction...it was a VG-10 and sold for $2,280...I left a bid at $2,160 with juice as I was away. Coin World value on these at F-12 is $2,000.

    I was also outbid on a 1802 Bust dime a couple months ago that was a F-2....it sold for $2,160, and I bid $2,040. Coin world value for these at G-4 are also $2,000.

    What the heck, I thought those bids would have been plenty to secure these coins but I got the feeling if I put anything higher I still would have been outbid!

    Shoot! Dang! Darn! o:)

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @Wabbit2313 said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    Show me a bust coin that hasn't been dipped once or twice... Doesn't bother me.

    You are referencing ALL Bust coins?

    Lance, @lkeigwin, could start posting images right now and not finish until morning.

    All that would prove is that he has coins where the dipping isn't obvious. :smile:

    Your proof is overwhelming. I guess all Bust coins have been dipped. Colonel Ned Green will be very upset.

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017 4:41PM

    @DoubleEagle59 said: "It's been dipped 4 or 5 times though."

    Please educate us. Approximately when and what do you see on the coin that leads to that opinion. Because it is old?

    @jmlanzaf Can you add anything to my question. I like the provision of "obvious" as that makes more sense to me. If I cannot see evidence of dipping on a coin in hand, AFA I am concerned - Who Cares. Isn't that the simple difference between cleaning (conservation) and improper cleaning?

  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @afford said: "Reason being that I am not a fan: The black schmutz that is remaining is the remnants of a cleaning, yeah I know dipping is fine for most, but it was dipped or something else maybe washed etc to remove the stuff between the devices, what ever left, the spots in the field and chunk by the two stars and in the denticles is what wasn't moving thru gentle actions....And now you know everything the I know."

    IMHO, what you posted about the black spots next to the stars is 100% incorrect...and now you know some of what I know. <3 BTW, I will agree that the coin may have been dipped - but four or five times? ROTFL

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    @DoubleEagle59 said: "It's been dipped 4 or 5 times though."

    Please educate us. Approximately when and what do you see on the coin that leads to that opinion. Because it is old?

    @jmlanzaf Can you add anything to my question. I like the provision of "obvious" as that makes more sense to me. If I cannot see evidence of dipping on a coin in hand, AFA I am concerned - Who Cares. Isn't that the simple difference between cleaning (conservation) and improper cleaning?

    I agree.

    It was soooo common to dip silver in the 19th century, they may have all been dipped at one time. I'm sure that's a slight exaggeration. The real issue is whether there are hairlines or lost luster.

    Honestly, in the close ups I don't see any signs of dipping. Frankly that's the best image and the one we should focus upon. The earlier poster claims the presence of the black spots proves dipping. Of course, you could just as easily argue that the presence of some schumtz proves it wasn't "cleaned".

    The two tone fields in the picture of the full slab lead one to believe there may have been a dip. It's also hard to say whether it isn't just a reflectivity issue from the white NGC slab insert.

    I'm just letting the critics criticize. It is what it is - UNC bust dime in an NGC 65 holder. Probably worth a few hundred bucks less than I paid for it since the market has been a bit down on this. Heritage sold a similar coin (JR-9, NGC MS-65) a couple years back for $4700.

    All things considered, I don't mind owning it for a few years.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PocketArt said:
    Nice coin, congrats.

    OT- I was the under bidder on the 1803 Bust dime in this auction...it was a VG-10 and sold for $2,280...I left a bid at $2,160 with juice as I was away. Coin World value on these at F-12 is $2,000.

    I was also outbid on a 1802 Bust dime a couple months ago that was a F-2....it sold for $2,160, and I bid $2,040. Coin world value for these at G-4 are also $2,000.

    What the heck, I thought those bids would have been plenty to secure these coins but I got the feeling if I put anything higher I still would have been outbid!

    Shoot! Dang! Darn! o:)

    You can never tell. These have been down lately. Depends on whether you want to be a hero. I threw one bid on this coin and fully expected to be outbid. Prices in the Stacks auctions have been pretty strong, I think, overall.

    The real coin I wanted was the large format Norse. Once it got over $5000, I was trying to decide whether to chase it to $10k. It ended up going for $7200. I would have bought it at that price, but I just didn't want to spend $10k this week. So, I bought myself the dime as a consolation prize. :smile:

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    It was soooo common to dip silver in the 19th century, they may have all been dipped at one time.

    Please provide your proof on this statement also. B)

  • DoubleEagle59DoubleEagle59 Posts: 8,402 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    @DoubleEagle59 said: "It's been dipped 4 or 5 times though."

    Please educate us. Approximately when and what do you see on the coin that leads to that opinion. Because it is old?

    @jmlanzaf Can you add anything to my question. I like the provision of "obvious" as that makes more sense to me. If I cannot see evidence of dipping on a coin in hand, AFA I am concerned - Who Cares. Isn't that the simple difference between cleaning (conservation) and improper cleaning?

    Does anyone here believe this coin has never been dipped?

    I also want to add that I have nothing against dipping.

    I believe it doesn't harm the coin and does not leave any evidence of being dipped.

    Hairlines are left on a coin from cleaning (abrasive action), not dipping.

    As I said before, I like the coin.

    "Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)

    "“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)

    "I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
  • Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017 5:26PM

    What an excellent post and display of knowledge! :blush:

    @jmlanzaf said: "It was soooo common to dip silver in the 19th century, they may have all been dipped at one time. I'm sure that's a slight exaggeration. The real issue is whether there are hairlines or lost luster." Honestly, in the close ups I don't see any signs of dipping."

    Agree.

    He continues: "The earlier poster claims the presence of the black spots proves dipping. Of course, you could just as easily argue that the presence of some schumtz proves it wasn't "cleaned".

    The only thing that type of spot proves is at one time (depending on the conditions of storage - it could have even been fairly recently) the coin was dipped (at least once) making its surface "raw." **Those spots are not leftover dirt that the cleaning missed. They are new corrosion spots - most of the corrosion products are above the surface. Proper conservation will remove them w/o a trace.

    The color difference on the cheek is a bit of friction wear (now called cabinet friction) that has affected the original luster. Still a very nice coin and IMO, after those spots are removed (they will get worse) no one could prove it was dipped - except by relying on its age.

  • divecchiadivecchia Posts: 6,699 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Nice pickup.

    Congrats,

    Donato

    Hobbyist & Collector (not an investor).
    Donato's Complete US Type Set ---- Donato's Dansco 7070 Modified Type Set ---- Donato's Basic U.S. Coin Design Set

    Successful transactions: Shrub68 (Jim), MWallace (Mike)
  • PocketArtPocketArt Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited November 9, 2017 5:48PM

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PocketArt said:
    Nice coin, congrats.

    OT- I was the under bidder on the 1803 Bust dime in this auction...it was a VG-10 and sold for $2,280...I left a bid at $2,160 with juice as I was away. Coin World value on these at F-12 is $2,000.

    I was also outbid on a 1802 Bust dime a couple months ago that was a F-2....it sold for $2,160, and I bid $2,040. Coin world value for these at G-4 are also $2,000.

    What the heck, I thought those bids would have been plenty to secure these coins but I got the feeling if I put anything higher I still would have been outbid!

    Shoot! Dang! Darn! o:)

    You can never tell. These have been down lately. Depends on whether you want to be a hero. I threw one bid on this coin and fully expected to be outbid. Prices in the Stacks auctions have been pretty strong, I think, overall.

    The real coin I wanted was the large format Norse. Once it got over $5000, I was trying to decide whether to chase it to $10k. It ended up going for $7200. I would have bought it at that price, but I just didn't want to spend $10k this week. So, I bought myself the dime as a consolation prize. :smile:

    Not looking to be hero; as my budget doesn't allow too much elasticity beyond what the coin is worth...at least what I think it's worth based on grade, and value per Coin World. I put in a bit more cushion than the next grade up, and was still the under bidder! Really?

    I'm just trying to land these at a price that seems reasonable, and I'm finding that I'm being blown out of the water!

    That's crazy- strong prices for sure on S&B...good for them, and they seem to have a good model; but it's not a place to find deals...at least for me in trying to purchase early Bust Dimes!!!??? Where to go??? :#

    As far as your consolation purchase...I'm feeling I need to do the same with S&B? They bring in the fish...definitely with bigger stomachs.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cannot believe so many tear this coin up. Not for me. But something tells me if this was a popular member posting this it might be hey, good eye, looks great heh. The back slapping would be heavy. I think the op would have been better off if they said most bust coins have been dipped or washed at some point in time.

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PocketArt said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PocketArt said:
    Nice coin, congrats.

    OT- I was the under bidder on the 1803 Bust dime in this auction...it was a VG-10 and sold for $2,280...I left a bid at $2,160 with juice as I was away. Coin World value on these at F-12 is $2,000.

    I was also outbid on a 1802 Bust dime a couple months ago that was a F-2....it sold for $2,160, and I bid $2,040. Coin world value for these at G-4 are also $2,000.

    What the heck, I thought those bids would have been plenty to secure these coins but I got the feeling if I put anything higher I still would have been outbid!

    Shoot! Dang! Darn! o:)

    You can never tell. These have been down lately. Depends on whether you want to be a hero. I threw one bid on this coin and fully expected to be outbid. Prices in the Stacks auctions have been pretty strong, I think, overall.

    The real coin I wanted was the large format Norse. Once it got over $5000, I was trying to decide whether to chase it to $10k. It ended up going for $7200. I would have bought it at that price, but I just didn't want to spend $10k this week. So, I bought myself the dime as a consolation prize. :smile:

    Not looking to be hero; as my budget doesn't allow too much elasticity beyond what the coin is worth...at least what I think it's worth based on grade, and value per Coin World. I put in a bit more cushion than the next grade up, and was still the under bidder! Really?

    I'm just trying to land these at a price that seems reasonable, and I'm finding that I'm being blown out of the water!

    That's crazy- strong prices for sure on S&B...good for them, and they seem to have a good model; but it's not a place to find deals...at least for me in trying to purchase early Bust Dimes!!!??? Where to go??? :#

    As far as your consolation purchase...I'm feeling I need to do the same with S&B? They bring in the fish...definitely with bigger stomachs.

    Sometimes. Prices were horrible in January. I bought a bunch of Lincoln double dies (55 and 72) and sold them all on eBay at a profit. Lately, prices have been far more solid. Be patient, eventually you'll be rewarded.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stman said:
    Cannot believe so many tear this coin up. Not for me. But something tells me if this was a popular member posting this it might be hey, good eye, looks great heh. The back slapping would be heavy. I think the op would have been better off if they said most bust coins have been dipped or washed at some point in time.

    LOL. Are you telling me that I'm not popular? :smile:

    Actually, when I said that virtually all bust coins have been dipped at one time, they jumped on me for that.

    I think it's a pretty coin, original enough. I'll own it for a while and then send it to a new home to someone else who likes it even more.

    It is what it is. I'm not saying it's anything other than what it is. Heck, I even admitted to overpaying for it!!!

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sorry, meant nothing personal on the popular comment. Yes, I seen they jumped you for all bust coins have been cleaned. I say most have been boinked with in some way. A little safer. :)

    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 37,648 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stman said:
    Sorry, meant nothing personal on the popular comment. Yes, I seen they jumped you for all bust coins have been cleaned. I say most have been boinked with in some way. A little safer. :)

    No worries. I knew exactly what you meant. Like all coin clubs, this one is a little cliquey.

    All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.

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