The 2015 Proof Buffalo Gold makes no sense to me and is an exception to the general rule (in a bad way).
That 2012-S Proof Silver Kennedy is yet another exception to the rule (in a good way)
I suspect the E. Roosevelt PR70DCAM FS Gold Spouse (and perhaps the MS70FS as well) may be another exception (in a good way) in that series
We'll see if the 2012-W Burnished Gold Eagle continues to outperform the 2017-W Burnished Gold Eagle in the weeks and months ahead. I think a key element will be the availability of 70 grade coins, but we'll see.
I agree that as a general rule, the lower mintage coin is generally worth more than the higher mintage coin in the same series.
Nice back and forth and one of the advantages of "owning everything" is some pile often wins while another pile loses. LOL. Let's not get into the disadvantages of "owning everything"
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Thanks WC and DM, good points on both sides. Always glad to hear your perspectives. I see APMEX upped their prices by about $300 for the few 2017-w remaining in stock (all of 1 now).
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
It was a pleasure having this discussion. I personally feel it never a good idea to "own the whole pile". But there is nothing wrong with having a few tucked away!
The "own the pile" philosophy is needed more when you are trying to build a retail selling outlet as my son Justin started doing about 18 months ago on eBay with his "monstercoinmart". For example, Justin started getting orders for the bullion version 2017 PCGS MS70FS Gold Eagles as he never had before (and I stopped getting serious requests for that coin around 2008!). Lol.
So, yes, you get a small piece of most every winner, but not a grand slam all that often. On the other hand, I personally thought the 4 pc. Liberty Spouse gold set was going to be a home run (if not a grand slam). I still have quite the stockpile to this day! If memory serves me right, you guys helped me greatly build that stockpile! . Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Haha.., the 4 coin liberty spouse set. I still have a bunch of those that I leave on my desk as a reminder that I may not be the smartest man at all times. That was just a flop as almost everybody lost interest in the series.
By any chance, do you know anyone with a pile of the 2017w $50 Burnished gold eagles? I am a believer in this one
Who is reading our conversation? If you notice on the dealer board, the offer for the 2013 and 2015 proof buffalo are now the same. I kinda think people didn't even realize the 15 had the better mintage.
I think the market will correct sooner rather than later
On sale at the Mint for 20 weeks.
For the first 18 weeks average sales were 255 coins per week.
Last two weeks saw sales explode by 1174 coins before becoming "not available."
I wonder who bought the bulk of these last 1174 coins (20% of total sales) and how they knew to buy them.
After all it is unusual for the mint to end this eagle version so quick and at such a low sales number.
It's a near repeat of the 2012 coin both in sale duration and sales numbers. The 2012 took off immediately in price after the surprise sell out. I don't believe the 2017 will do that for a few reasons. Anyway It's a shame it takes so long to get "final finals" these days -- the mint hasn't updated their site in 5 years for this series. Eric? Mr Jordan? Please pick up the courtesy phone.
It isn't that uncommon for big chunks of a coin to sell as there are some massive companies that put together large programs and therefore need to cover their sales.
If you look at the Us Mint Cumulative sales report on 9/3, sales for the 2017 w $50 burnished gold eagles came in at 2968. Just a week later, on the 9/10/17 sales report, the sales figure was 3822. That means 852 coins were sold in 7 days, after the coin had been on sale for months.
There are a few weeks where the sales of the 2017 w $50 burnished gold coin were very large and that leads me to believe these coins are either in strong hands or the coins are in the hands of the large companies customers. The fact that so few of these coins are showing up on ebay after such a dramatic rise in price is another sign that these coins are in strong holders hands.
That being said, my conclusion is this coin is going to be very very strong.
LOL. I am pretty sure that is the same guy that was on TV last night praising the 2017 W $50 Burnished Gold Eagle as the rarest of rare gold eagle ever,
LOL. I am pretty sure that is the same guy that was on TV last night praising the 2017 W $50 Burnished Gold Eagle as the rarest of rare gold eagle ever,
What a huckster, lol. I saw him hawking the 2017 W $50 Burnished Gold Eagle yesterday too.
Does anyone even buy ANACS graded coins? (other then the home shoppers)
That's 23 coins OVER 2012...a nail biter..who will reign the LOWEST??
Furthermore, will that small change make a diff in the series key?
And who will make the sacrifice and return their booty order to tip the scales to 2012 or 2017?
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
Seriously, we may have to wait 5 years or more to find out the 2017 is the real key. The 2012's last known sales were 6114 before the audited numbers came out.
It is interesting that there were less than (300) PCGS-SP70 First Strike (Flag label) coins produced for 2017 as compared to over (700) for 2012! Even including the First Day coins, 2017 comes in well under 2012 for 70 grade FS/FDI.
And, yet I currently have (10) of these First Strike 70 grade coins (for 2017) offered out well under current eBay levels and so far no takers? Little demand for the top PCGS graded product at this point (70 grade and First Strike)? Have collectors not absorbed the news yet? Or, does it just not matter? Thoughts?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I think they have absorbed the news. The 2012 came in as a fairly deep key when it went off sale where the 2017 is not, it will be a bare key like the National Parks over Jackie. Again, the 2012 took off immediately when the coin went red. Anyway in the meantime all we have are last known sales figures which may show it not even being the key, and this is the number the market will go by probably. I don't think burnished Eagles get the moderns folks hot like they used to. Short term, a little will happen on this coin but not much.
2 cents.
@wondercoin said:
It is interesting that there were less than (300) PCGS-SP70 First Strike (Flag label) coins produced for 2017 as compared to over (700) for 2012! Even including the First Day coins, 2017 comes in well under 2012 for 70 grade FS/FDI.
And, yet I currently have (10) of these First Strike 70 grade coins (for 2017) offered out well under current eBay levels and so far no takers? Little demand for the top PCGS graded product at this point (70 grade and First Strike)? Have collectors not absorbed the news yet? Or, does it just not matter? Thoughts?
Wondercoin
probably still digesting the latest sales number with a wait and see outlook.
Even with the second lowest mintage of ALL American gold eagles it remains a big key coin. Keep in mind there are well over 200 sizes and flavors of this coin series.
Got it, ouch! Are these final numbers? I purchased ER NGC MS70 for $1800 over weekend hoping it was going to be lowest mintage, still not bad considering they go $2000+ on ebay and Apmex had OGP one listed for $2200+ that was gone the same day!
Final numbers? Not until Mint says so. There might even be more returns mixed into the equation. Coin is "currently unavailable" at the Mint website. Could they strike and sell more? Sure, if they want to.
Updated mintage today is 5853. Only 24 coins more than 2012.
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
Well that's a surprise...but welcome. Now if only derryb will return those 25 he has...
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
Apparently, the fact that it's not the lowest mintage anymore hasn't dampened the huge premium the sellers are asking for it. The prices on ebay appeared to have increased from last weeks, when people thought it would be the lowest mintage.
Not many of these being listed on ebay. Prices for most of the 16 listed are below the ebay asking price for the next lowest mintage 2012 W. Maybe one of you big dealers can chime in. Are you waiting for/expecting higher prices with the 2017W?
Comments
The 2015 Proof Buffalo Gold makes no sense to me and is an exception to the general rule (in a bad way).
That 2012-S Proof Silver Kennedy is yet another exception to the rule (in a good way)
I suspect the E. Roosevelt PR70DCAM FS Gold Spouse (and perhaps the MS70FS as well) may be another exception (in a good way) in that series
We'll see if the 2012-W Burnished Gold Eagle continues to outperform the 2017-W Burnished Gold Eagle in the weeks and months ahead. I think a key element will be the availability of 70 grade coins, but we'll see.
I agree that as a general rule, the lower mintage coin is generally worth more than the higher mintage coin in the same series.
Nice back and forth and one of the advantages of "owning everything" is some pile often wins while another pile loses. LOL. Let's not get into the disadvantages of "owning everything"
Wondercoin
Thanks WC and DM, good points on both sides. Always glad to hear your perspectives. I see APMEX upped their prices by about $300 for the few 2017-w remaining in stock (all of 1 now).
WC,
It was a pleasure having this discussion. I personally feel it never a good idea to "own the whole pile". But there is nothing wrong with having a few tucked away!
Thanks again,
Danny
The "own the pile" philosophy is needed more when you are trying to build a retail selling outlet as my son Justin started doing about 18 months ago on eBay with his "monstercoinmart". For example, Justin started getting orders for the bullion version 2017 PCGS MS70FS Gold Eagles as he never had before (and I stopped getting serious requests for that coin around 2008!). Lol.
. Wondercoin.
So, yes, you get a small piece of most every winner, but not a grand slam all that often. On the other hand, I personally thought the 4 pc. Liberty Spouse gold set was going to be a home run (if not a grand slam). I still have quite the stockpile to this day! If memory serves me right, you guys helped me greatly build that stockpile!
Haha.., the 4 coin liberty spouse set. I still have a bunch of those that I leave on my desk as a reminder that I may not be the smartest man at all times. That was just a flop as almost everybody lost interest in the series.
By any chance, do you know anyone with a pile of the 2017w $50 Burnished gold eagles? I am a believer in this one
Who is reading our conversation? If you notice on the dealer board, the offer for the 2013 and 2015 proof buffalo are now the same. I kinda think people didn't even realize the 15 had the better mintage.
I think the market will correct sooner rather than later
some interesting facts on this issue:
On sale at the Mint for 20 weeks.
For the first 18 weeks average sales were 255 coins per week.
Last two weeks saw sales explode by 1174 coins before becoming "not available."
I wonder who bought the bulk of these last 1174 coins (20% of total sales) and how they knew to buy them.
After all it is unusual for the mint to end this eagle version so quick and at such a low sales number.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
It's a near repeat of the 2012 coin both in sale duration and sales numbers. The 2012 took off immediately in price after the surprise sell out. I don't believe the 2017 will do that for a few reasons. Anyway It's a shame it takes so long to get "final finals" these days -- the mint hasn't updated their site in 5 years for this series. Eric? Mr Jordan? Please pick up the courtesy phone.
only 10 current listings on ebay and only 11 sales since Aug. 4. The big boy websites are pretty empty. Where are the coins?
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
It isn't that uncommon for big chunks of a coin to sell as there are some massive companies that put together large programs and therefore need to cover their sales.
If you look at the Us Mint Cumulative sales report on 9/3, sales for the 2017 w $50 burnished gold eagles came in at 2968. Just a week later, on the 9/10/17 sales report, the sales figure was 3822. That means 852 coins were sold in 7 days, after the coin had been on sale for months.
There are a few weeks where the sales of the 2017 w $50 burnished gold coin were very large and that leads me to believe these coins are either in strong hands or the coins are in the hands of the large companies customers. The fact that so few of these coins are showing up on ebay after such a dramatic rise in price is another sign that these coins are in strong holders hands.
That being said, my conclusion is this coin is going to be very very strong.
Yep, just ask Mike Mezack
LOL. I am pretty sure that is the same guy that was on TV last night praising the 2017 W $50 Burnished Gold Eagle as the rarest of rare gold eagle ever,
What a huckster, lol. I saw him hawking the 2017 W $50 Burnished Gold Eagle yesterday too.
Does anyone even buy ANACS graded coins? (other then the home shoppers)
New Report saying 5,852.
Hope all the high dollar ebay sellers didn't offer returns.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
They were able to see the remaining inventory and thought this would end up the lowest, but the 2012 seems to have it beat.
2011-W 8729
2012-W 5829
2013-W 7293
2014-W 7902
2015-W 6533
2016-W 6888
2017-W 5768
OMG - 2017-W is 5852 ??
That's 23 coins OVER 2012...a nail biter..who will reign the LOWEST??
Furthermore, will that small change make a diff in the series key?
And who will make the sacrifice and return their booty order to tip the scales to 2012 or 2017?
Seriously, we may have to wait 5 years or more to find out the 2017 is the real key. The 2012's last known sales were 6114 before the audited numbers came out.
It is interesting that there were less than (300) PCGS-SP70 First Strike (Flag label) coins produced for 2017 as compared to over (700) for 2012! Even including the First Day coins, 2017 comes in well under 2012 for 70 grade FS/FDI.
And, yet I currently have (10) of these First Strike 70 grade coins (for 2017) offered out well under current eBay levels and so far no takers? Little demand for the top PCGS graded product at this point (70 grade and First Strike)? Have collectors not absorbed the news yet? Or, does it just not matter? Thoughts?
Wondercoin
I think they have absorbed the news. The 2012 came in as a fairly deep key when it went off sale where the 2017 is not, it will be a bare key like the National Parks over Jackie. Again, the 2012 took off immediately when the coin went red. Anyway in the meantime all we have are last known sales figures which may show it not even being the key, and this is the number the market will go by probably. I don't think burnished Eagles get the moderns folks hot like they used to. Short term, a little will happen on this coin but not much.
2 cents.
probably still digesting the latest sales number with a wait and see outlook.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
Even with the second lowest mintage of ALL American gold eagles it remains a big key coin. Keep in mind there are well over 200 sizes and flavors of this coin series.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
Where does it say it's 5852? Last official report on US Mint website says 5,320 +/- 448, which gives you max of 5768.
Your data is from the Coinupdate's Oct. 15 report. Has not yet been updated.
Latest from the mint website:
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
Got it, ouch! Are these final numbers? I purchased ER NGC MS70 for $1800 over weekend hoping it was going to be lowest mintage, still not bad considering they go $2000+ on ebay and Apmex had OGP one listed for $2200+ that was gone the same day!
Final numbers? Not until Mint says so. There might even be more returns mixed into the equation. Coin is "currently unavailable" at the Mint website. Could they strike and sell more? Sure, if they want to.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
Asked the Mint about it few days ago, they responded stating they are sold out but more may be available later. I guess we'll have to wait and see...
Updated mintage today is 5853. Only 24 coins more than 2012.
25 returns would be nice, but don't count on me.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
Mint page says Sold Out
Well that's a surprise...but welcome. Now if only derryb will return those 25 he has...
Apparently, the fact that it's not the lowest mintage anymore hasn't dampened the huge premium the sellers are asking for it. The prices on ebay appeared to have increased from last weeks, when people thought it would be the lowest mintage.
prices continue to climb on ebay, selling like hot cakes. Currently only five listed and three of those are raw. Not seeing any 69's offered.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
Lowest mintage now at 5800. This coin is going to be very good
And this is on the official sales page from the Mint.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
Noticed that yesterday, surprised. Looking forward to number dropping even more!
Not many of these being listed on ebay. Prices for most of the 16 listed are below the ebay asking price for the next lowest mintage 2012 W. Maybe one of you big dealers can chime in. Are you waiting for/expecting higher prices with the 2017W?
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong