1817 Bust Half- Real or contemporary counterfeit?

cmerlo1 · October 12, 2017 8:56AM

A dealer friend of mine asked me about this 1817 half. He said it seems off to him, and I kind of agree. I've owned several contemporary counterfeits (all dated in the early 1830's) and it doesn't have the look that those do. Weight is 13.17 grams. It does ring, but sounds different when rung on a countertop compared to another bust half he has. Thoughts?

Insider2 · October 12, 2017 9:06AM

First look - genuine. Let me check the dies. If counterfeit, it is a beauty!!!!

O-111 Genuine.

Why do you question the coin? Oh, I see. How long have you been ringing coins? Even this takes an experienced ear. I remember in an authentication class the instructor dropped a genuine Franklin Half on the table. Dull thud. The class was amazed until he explained that the edge of the coin was split. The coin would never "ring."

OKbustchaser · October 12, 2017 9:09AM

Overton 111 die pair. The slight underweight is probably due to wear.

23Pairer · October 12, 2017 9:14AM

Authentic 1817 O.111

My Bad. In a hurry, DOOOH

Insider2 · October 12, 2017 9:15AM

Check out the raised vertical line coming from the ribbon end on the obverse.

cmerlo1 · October 12, 2017 9:21AM

@Insider2 said:
First look - genuine. Let me check the dies. If counterfeit, it is a beauty!!!!

O-111 Genuine.

Why do you question the coin? Oh, I see. How long have you been ringing coins? Even this takes an experienced ear. I remember in an authentication class the instructor dropped a genuine Franklin Half on the table. Dull thud. The class was amazed until he explained that the edge of the coin was split. The coin would never "ring."

Yeah- I know the ring test can't be trusted, but James has been a coin dealer a long time and this was triggering his 'spidey sense'. Thanks for checking it out!

cmerlo1 · October 12, 2017 9:24AM

Here's one of the contemporaries I used to own:

23Pairer · October 12, 2017 9:24AM

@Insider2 said:
First look - genuine. Let me check the dies. If counterfeit, it is a beauty!!!!

O-111 Genuine.

Why do you question the coin? Oh, I see. How long have you been ringing coins? Even this takes an experienced ear. I remember in an authentication class the instructor dropped a genuine Franklin Half on the table. Dull thud. The class was amazed until he explained that the edge of the coin was split. The coin would never "ring."

Good call guys.

Insider2 · October 12, 2017 9:25AM

@cmerlo1 said: "...and this was triggering his 'spidey sense'."

Is that the same as a "gut reaction?"

CaptHenway · October 12, 2017 9:25AM

@Insider2 said:
First look - genuine. Let me check the dies. If counterfeit, it is a beauty!!!!

O-111 Genuine.

Why do you question the coin? Oh, I see. How long have you been ringing coins? Even this takes an experienced ear. I remember in an authentication class the instructor dropped a genuine Franklin Half on the table. Dull thud. The class was amazed until he explained that the edge of the coin was split. The coin would never "ring."

Agreed.

lkeigwin · October 12, 2017 9:31AM

It's a genuine O.111.

There are only two known contemporary counterfeits for 1817, according to Davignon's book.

One struck, and unique (below). The other cast, possibly from an O.112 coin, and no examples are known to exist (but it is documented in Riddell's 1845 monograph).
Lance.

oih82w8 · October 12, 2017 12:46PM

OP coin looks good to me...but, what do I know?

AMRC · October 12, 2017 1:33PM

Me thinky it ok.

Treashunt · October 12, 2017 1:39PM

100% not contemporary counterfeit

grip · October 12, 2017 1:46PM

And so do I.

1817 Bust Half- Real or contemporary counterfeit?

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