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1817 Bust Half- Real or contemporary counterfeit?

cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

A dealer friend of mine asked me about this 1817 half. He said it seems off to him, and I kind of agree. I've owned several contemporary counterfeits (all dated in the early 1830's) and it doesn't have the look that those do. Weight is 13.17 grams. It does ring, but sounds different when rung on a countertop compared to another bust half he has. Thoughts?

You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2017 9:13AM

    First look - genuine. Let me check the dies. If counterfeit, it is a beauty!!!!

    O-111 Genuine.

    Why do you question the coin? Oh, I see. How long have you been ringing coins? Even this takes an experienced ear. I remember in an authentication class the instructor dropped a genuine Franklin Half on the table. Dull thud. The class was amazed until he explained that the edge of the coin was split. The coin would never "ring."

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    OKbustchaserOKbustchaser Posts: 5,441 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Overton 111 die pair. The slight underweight is probably due to wear.

    Just because I'm old doesn't mean I don't love to look at a pretty bust.
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    23Pairer23Pairer Posts: 911 ✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2017 9:23AM

    Authentic 1817 O.111

    My Bad. In a hurry, DOOOH

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2017 5:06PM

    Check out the raised vertical line coming from the ribbon end on the obverse.

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    cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    First look - genuine. Let me check the dies. If counterfeit, it is a beauty!!!!

    O-111 Genuine.

    Why do you question the coin? Oh, I see. How long have you been ringing coins? Even this takes an experienced ear. I remember in an authentication class the instructor dropped a genuine Franklin Half on the table. Dull thud. The class was amazed until he explained that the edge of the coin was split. The coin would never "ring."

    Yeah- I know the ring test can't be trusted, but James has been a coin dealer a long time and this was triggering his 'spidey sense'. Thanks for checking it out!

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
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    cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,891 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here's one of the contemporaries I used to own:

    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
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    23Pairer23Pairer Posts: 911 ✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    First look - genuine. Let me check the dies. If counterfeit, it is a beauty!!!!

    O-111 Genuine.

    Why do you question the coin? Oh, I see. How long have you been ringing coins? Even this takes an experienced ear. I remember in an authentication class the instructor dropped a genuine Franklin Half on the table. Dull thud. The class was amazed until he explained that the edge of the coin was split. The coin would never "ring."

    Good call guys.

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    Insider2Insider2 Posts: 14,452 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @cmerlo1 said: "...and this was triggering his 'spidey sense'."

    Is that the same as a "gut reaction?"

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    CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,554 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Insider2 said:
    First look - genuine. Let me check the dies. If counterfeit, it is a beauty!!!!

    O-111 Genuine.

    Why do you question the coin? Oh, I see. How long have you been ringing coins? Even this takes an experienced ear. I remember in an authentication class the instructor dropped a genuine Franklin Half on the table. Dull thud. The class was amazed until he explained that the edge of the coin was split. The coin would never "ring."

    Agreed.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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    lkeigwinlkeigwin Posts: 16,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It's a genuine O.111.

    There are only two known contemporary counterfeits for 1817, according to Davignon's book.

    One struck, and unique (below). The other cast, possibly from an O.112 coin, and no examples are known to exist (but it is documented in Riddell's 1845 monograph).
    Lance.

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    oih82w8oih82w8 Posts: 11,900 ✭✭✭✭✭

    OP coin looks good to me...but, what do I know?

    oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's

    BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
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    AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,266 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Me thinky it ok.

    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
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    TreashuntTreashunt Posts: 6,747 ✭✭✭✭✭

    100% not contemporary counterfeit

    Frank

    BHNC #203

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    gripgrip Posts: 9,962 ✭✭✭✭✭

    And so do I.

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