TPG grading, arrived yesterday, updated images from their new PCGS slabs
Desert Moon
Posts: 5,992 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hi Everyone,
There has been alot of debate on these message boards over the years regarding grading and value for coins in TPG slabs. I know this is an old topic but I don't think there has actually been much documented evidence supporting different conclusions in the debate - mainly just subjective statements. I like to see evidence supporting a conclusion so I am submitting mine in this thread.
I think it is well established now that PCGS holdered coins are more liquid, and auction records show that in many series they sell for more for a given coin and a given grade. I have put this idea to the test many times over the last few years by cracking NGC slabs and submitting raw to PCGS. I have always felt that is the best way to determine consistency (or not). I believe crossing to have bias involved, if I were a professional grader for a TPG, I would certainly be conservative (for many reasons) and as many have shown and have suggested here on these message boards - when evaluating a coin to be crossed. So I believe the raw submissions tell the real story. So within the series I collect, and the grade ranges, here are 7 coins I cracked out of NGC holders and submitted raw to PCGS. The first 2 I submitted earlier this summer, the last 5 were just graded and currently in transit back to me. I think they tell a consistent story to what my experience has been over the years doing this, and I draw my conclusions at the bottom of the post.
Best, SH
This was in a pre-pronged holder but not a fatty. It was graded N58 and the dealer told me it did not pass CAC. I liked the look and thought the reason why no CAC was because it was really a 55. PCGS agreed, CAC agreed.
This was in a pronged N45 holder and I got it in a GC auction this spring.
The next 5 are in transit and not re-imaged yet. Before each image in the previous holder are the listed grades for the submission on my account.
Originally in NGC XF details holder, sent to IGC and got XF40.
1 1 85100365 1829 10C Large 10C XF40
NOTE - NOT MY BEST IMAGE NEED TO REDO THIS ONE TO CAPTURE THE TONING BETTER
Originally in pre-pronged holder, I got it reholdered.
2 1 85100366 1843-O 25C XF45
Originally in pre-pronged holder, I got it reholdered.
3 1 85100367 1876-CC 25C RPD FS-301 MS62
4 1 85100368 1823 50C MS62
5 1 85100369 1858-O 50C AU58
So here is a summary of results:
N58 to P55
N45 to P53
NGC XF details to IGC40 to P40
N45 to P45
N62 to P62
N62 to P62
N62 to P58
1 upgrade, 2 downgrades, 1 from details NGC to graded in IGC to PCGS (could be considered an upgrade), 4 stayed the same, Holders from different generations/grading periods cracked and submitted during a 3 month grading time at PCGS. I find this to be pretty darned consistent all things considered. Yes sometimes they undergrade, yes sometimes they overgrade, but mostly, they grade the same if one considers the long term averages of the grades. This has been consistent with what I have experienced over the years by doing the same procedure with around 30 other coins at different times. Yes this is not a strong statistical argument because one would need 1000s of coins going through the TPGs raw to do this right. Nevertheless, I conclude that the grading is overall the same.
So why do I crack out the NGC's if the grading is largely the same?
Several reasons.
First, because of the perception of higher value in a PCGS holder and greater liquidity that I have personally experienced trying to sell when doing pocket vest work on the bourse.
Second, for presentation, it would be nice to have all of my coins in the same holders.
Third, PCGS holders have superior plastic and I like the look better. I can't for the life of me polish up a dinged up NGC holder without leaving hairlines but the PCGS holders polish up nicely. I like the neutral gray of the PCGS holders versus the stark white of the NGC holders. Just a simple preference.
Best, SH
Comments
Excellent post. Thanks for taking the time to share.
Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia
Findley Ridge Collection
About Findley Ridge
Thanks for the info.
Beautiful coins. You have a great eye.
Thanks for sharing; from the hobby perspective all to the good. There is a little wiggle room on accuracy with grading, it looks like cac will like a coin if it sinks a little on the numerical range, not sure how they make those judgments. We have lots of images and grade descriptions to go by, but ultimately it comes down to a given coin with various characteristics in denomination, year, mm and all the factors that go into assessing the grade.
Nice coins.
I wish more members would document their submission record as you have done. It reminds me of the TPGS test that Coin World did long ago. Also gives me a look at the "real world." When I was actively collecting those first two dimes would have only graded XF!
Well that is another topic - gradeflation.......... I personally don't have the years to evaluate that topic.
Best, SH
Well, hopefully the guys that send the same coin in during the space of a year or get a batch of coins crossed will show us some stuff.
You're not alone. NGC slabs don't clean up well.
Love the 1823 O.105!
Lance.
Interesting information... Thanks for documenting that... and presumably, you will continue this in the coming years. Cheers, RickO