The ANA is a typical non profit organization. Those that are already employed keep change from happening.
Presidents and governors have and want limited responsibility.
The executive director has the only real input. If they stray from the path of the old guard, accusations occur, and lawsuits are filed. Sad how much time and money has been wasted.
None of it benefits collectors or numismatics.
We'll said. Business as usual
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Wow! I really wanted to study Marine Biology! It was a passion of mine. Dumbass here busted an eardrum diving when he shouldn't so I changed directions. It just wouldn't be the same without being able to dive.
@JohnF said:
My father (David Lawrence) had a Ph.D (Miami) in Marine Biology and never felt the need to get one in numismatics. Experience trumps formal education in rare coins. However, that said, most everyone can appreciate the benefits of a few institutions offering a genuine degree in this area. However, doing so will not save the ANA financially. Or pay for a month's worth of my Starbucks bill.
Here's a thought for improving the ANA convention. In addition to the official auction firms, what if any other legitimate auction firm were allowed to hold a small one-session auction at the show? Perhaps a flat fee of $1000 would be charged to cover the cost of the auction room, and with 5% of the proceeds going to the ANA. Or something like that. I could see 5-10 smaller companies, especially the specialized firms, taking the ANA up on the deal. It would make the show more exciting and more essential to attend.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka said:
Here's a thought for improving the ANA convention. In addition to the official auction firms, what if any other legitimate auction firm were allowed to hold a small one-session auction at the show? Perhaps a flat fee of $1000 would be charged to cover the cost of the auction room, and with 5% of the proceeds going to the ANA. Or something like that. I could see 5-10 smaller companies, especially the specialized firms, taking the ANA up on the deal. It would make the show more exciting and more essential to attend.
It could be useful if the auction was on the last day for collectors showing up on the weekend. This way, there would also be more incentive for dealers to stay longer.
For degrees, they could look into a standalone degree program like The American College's MSFS degree for financial advisors. I have no idea how good this, just that it's an accredited stand-alone college/degree. Imagine if this became a credential all dealers wanted to get to break into the market and show their expertise?
The ANA is a typical non profit organization. Those that are already employed keep change from happening.
Presidents and governors have and want limited responsibility.
The executive director has the only real input. If they stray from the path of the old guard, accusations occur, and lawsuits are filed. Sad how much time and money has been wasted.
None of it benefits collectors or numismatics.
I agree with this and think the ANA's structure may not support what some of the membership and employees wish it to accomplish to move numismatics forward. It would be interesting for there to be an discussion on whether a restructuring could accomplish more of its goals.
@Zoins said:
For degrees, they could look into a standalone degree program like The American College's MSFS degree for financial advisors. I have no idea how good this, just that it's an accredited stand-alone college/degree. Imagine if this became a credential all dealers wanted to get to break into the market and show their expertise?
Institutions are accredited, not stand-alone degrees. The easiest part of creating a numismatic degree program is the curriculum. The real challenge is the accreditation process for the institution. That's a monstrous barrier to the ANA becoming a stand-alone, accredited, degree-granting institution. Another barrier is the required infrastructure to support an institution of higher learning.
The ANA's coordinated educational experience is Summer Seminar. The difference between Summer Seminar the ANA offering a numismatic degree program is the difference between kids playing stickball and the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
@Zoins said:
For degrees, they could look into a standalone degree program like The American College's MSFS degree for financial advisors. I have no idea how good this, just that it's an accredited stand-alone college/degree. Imagine if this became a credential all dealers wanted to get to break into the market and show their expertise?
Institutions are accredited, not stand-alone degrees. The easiest part of creating a numismatic degree program is the curriculum. The real challenge is the accreditation process for the institution. That's a monstrous barrier to the ANA becoming a stand-alone, accredited, degree-granting institution. Another barrier is the required infrastructure to support an institution of higher learning.
The ANA's coordinated educational experience is Summer Seminar. The difference between Summer Seminar the ANA offering a numismatic degree program is the difference between kids playing stickball and the Los Angeles Dodgers.
Perhaps there could be a minor league like a certificate that many universities offer as part of their evening programs? This way the ANA could walk before they run. They already have the classes so they could string them together into a certificate program.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I've contended for years that the ANA needs to hire/ recruit from the outside. Blow up the Board of Governors format. On any good functioning board you need ideas from different walks of life's and experiences. Marketing that definitely has to come from the outside. It needs to be blown up. They have missed the boat on so many advancements. It's like "time stood still" is a revered and time honored mandate of the ANA.
The ANA sits on the banks of the River Denial
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Laura's hot topics are the numismatic equivalent of watching a chimp throw poo at a glass barrier in the zoo. We all just watch in disbelief, and she has to live in the mess she created.
She needs to get over herself. Why doesn't she harness all of this anger and vitriol and write a research article for the Numismatist? Or something else constructive of the sorts? Pissing off the leadership who directs the actual doers at the ANA isn't helping anything.
-Brandon -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins] -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
@Insider2 said:
Let me try. A place that offers courses on coins. They can be tailored to different fields. For example, a doctorate in Coins of England and the United Kingdom. The Spink Reference would be one of the textbooks. It covers about 150 BC to modern times. Classes would include the history, authentication, grading, identification, coin making techniques and the machinery used, and tokens. Much of the curriculum would be the history of each ruler. et there are several British numismatists who could plan the syllabus and teach the courses. Written papers would be required for the BS, MS, and Phd levels of study. See, just like a regular college.
So in my opinion that would be placed in the "fairy tale" category.
Edit: I see Laura clarified: "Last, my idea of a Numismatic University, I did not mean a certified University. The ANA should market its programs via the internet like the online Universities do."
Ok, this makes a lot more sense to me. I think is feasible and could be a really good idea.
Perhaps there could be a minor league like a certificate that many universities offer as part of their evening programs? This way the ANA could walk before they run. They already have the classes so they could string them together into a certificate program.
The ANA already has a certificate program ... or at least they had one the last time I checked. It was their series of correspondence courses and I think some of the live Summer Seminar courses could be included (although my memory is a little fuzzy on that point).
If the ANA really wants to move forward with a serious educational effort, they need to partner with an accredited college/university. In order for the ANA educational offerings to have meaning, as with a true certificate program, the "certificates" need to be more than an affirmation of payment and attendance. In other words, the participants need to earn the certificate. Also ... the certificates need to have merit in the numismatic field. Currently, that's not the case with ANA educational programs.
The first step is to pay the instructors a stipend and hold them accountable for course and student outcomes. The next ... and this will insult a few folks ... is that instructors need to demonstrate educational competency. While marvelous people volunteer their time to teach for the ANA, many are not trained to be educators and lack the experience of how to teach adults. It's not that the instructors are incapable, they just don't have the background since it's not what they do (they are not teachers by training). This is one of the essential components of an accredited institution of higher learning ... qualified educators.
Don't get me wrong, I have attended (and taught) many Summer Seminar courses and it's a great series of courses taught in a fun environment by some the leading (volunteer) numismatists in the country. It's just not equivalent to university courses. Again ... stickball versus the Dodgers.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
@brg5658 said:
Why doesn't she harness all of this anger and vitriol and write a research article for the Numismatist?
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that numismatic research is not an ideal outlet for rage. However, I would defer to RWB on this subject.
Roger's rage has seemed more in check as of late
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@brg5658 said: "Laura's hot topics are the numismatic equivalent of watching a chimp throw poo at a glass barrier in the zoo. We all just watch in disbelief, and she has to live in the mess she created."
She needs to get over herself. Why doesn't she harness all of this anger and vitriol and write a research article for the Numismatist? Or something else constructive of the sorts? Pissing off the leadership who directs the actual doers at the ANA isn't helping anything.
This post smacks me as ABUSE (whatever that is): ** Laura's hot topics are the numismatic equivalent of watching a CHIMP throw poo at a glass barrier in the zoo.**
Since I picked up three this evening, my advice to all is to be on the lookout.
@brg5658 said:
Laura's hot topics are the numismatic equivalent of watching a chimp throw poo at a glass barrier in the zoo. We all just watch in disbelief, and she has to live in the mess she created.
She needs to get over herself. Why doesn't she harness all of this anger and vitriol and write a research article for the Numismatist? Or something else constructive of the sorts? Pissing off the leadership who directs the actual doers at the ANA isn't helping anything.
I find it interesting that the example of doing something constructive is to write a research article for the Numismatist. I think that is exactly the type of outdated thinking that Laura is referring to. A research article in the Numismatist is not particularly effective in increasing interest and participation in coin collecting.
While Laura's tactics are certainly controversial and we can debate their effectiveness, we are not all watching in disbelief of a chimp throwing feces.
@tradedollarnut said:
Isn't that already the crux of the problem? Another dry research article for the Numismatist. Oh boy!
There are certainly doers...it's just not the leadership. There are always doers...and then there are those who can't. The ANA leadership isn't writing the code for the ANA website; thus in that instance, they are not doers.
As for the reference to writing an article for the Numismatist, people obviously missed the sarcasm there. Laura can't even bother herself with spelling and punctuation in her word diarrhea of a stream of consciousness rant, I was NOT serious in suggesting she write a piece of scholarship. Though, that would certainly be humorous.
Does Laura teach at summer seminar? Does she volunteer at local schools to engage kids in numismatics? Has she ever created an educational display at any coin show? Maybe she has, I don't know.
-Brandon -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~- My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins] -~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
There are plenty of topics in U.S. numismatics that would lend themselves well to a series of lectures. This could be anywhere from 1-6 hours each with as many parts as make sense to break them up. They can be rated at a number of different levels of complication and specificity so people can choose which ones suit them best. These would not lead to a degree but they would be a little more than just reading an article. Some examples off the top of my head:
The minting process from the hammer to the modern mass production
Failed Denominations and the social/cultural circumstances that led to them
Patterns and the social/cultural circumstances that led to them
Trade dollars and their circulation in China
Early proofs, and the use of proof dies for circulation strikes
The many colors of copper
C, D, CC
Silver Dollars 1905-1920
Lincoln Cents... isn't a century enough
The commemorative process from the classics to modern times
Evolution of counterfeiting
Counterfeit techniques and how to find them
Die design process from hand punches to lasers
Teaching numismatics in primary school
The dead years of circulating coinage 1970-1998
I could probably think of more but these all would make for at least moderately interesting lectures or lecture series.
Conceptually these would be a perfect thing for people who get home from work, eat dinner, put the kids to sleep and want to commit an hour or 2 to furthering their hobby. When I was working retail a lot of people would come in and tell me they collected when they were younger and wanted to get back in. Wouldn't these be a perfect place to refer these people to in order to bring back the spark?
@Greeniejr said:
There are plenty of topics in U.S. numismatics that would lend themselves well to a series of lectures. This could be anywhere from 1-6 hours each with as many parts as make sense to break them up. They can be rated at a number of different levels of complication and specificity so people can choose which ones suit them best. These would not lead to a degree but they would be a little more than just reading an article. Some examples off the top of my head:
The minting process from the hammer to the modern mass production
Failed Denominations and the social/cultural circumstances that led to them
Patterns and the social/cultural circumstances that led to them
Trade dollars and their circulation in China
Early proofs, and the use of proof dies for circulation strikes
The many colors of copper
C, D, CC
Silver Dollars 1905-1920
Lincoln Cents... isn't a century enough
The commemorative process from the classics to modern times
Evolution of counterfeiting
Counterfeit techniques and how to find them
Die design process from hand punches to lasers
Teaching numismatics in primary school
The dead years of circulating coinage 1970-1998
I could probably think of more but these all would make for at least moderately interesting lectures or lecture series.
Conceptually these would be a perfect thing for people who get home from work, eat dinner, put the kids to sleep and want to commit an hour or 2 to furthering their hobby. When I was working retail a lot of people would come in and tell me they collected when they were younger and wanted to get back in. Wouldn't these be a perfect place to refer these people to in order to bring back the spark?
All this education you'd think the ANA would be swimming in cash. ;-) The problem is, higher education will not pay the bills, or increase membership, and that is the big issue here.
John Feigenbaum Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com) PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
I'm guessing it's a crossover from the monument thread.
Same boat for me. I have not talked to him in weeks. I think he's lost it. I gave him a whack in the other thread as a thank you though.
What's a "whack?' Throwing a "flag" for the fun of it? Newsflash: A flag removes one point. Get too many and you probably are banned. Hopefully, the mods can see what is going on - what's deserved and what is not or some kind of retaliation.
I'm the bad guy now. I've been trolled and flagged by "snowflakes." I don't even know what "spam" or "abuse" is except calling a person a chimp seems to be pushing the line and posting funny videos about someone may be also. That's why I wrote a warning to you guys! Apparently, the PC snowflakes cannot face the truth when both sides are put before them.
John I have to disagree with you just a little bit. Getting new people into the ANA is a two step process. Gaining the member and retaining the member. The education portion is a big part of step 2 which creates more knowledgeable collectors that are good for the long term health of our industry.
Step 1 happens 30+ years before step 2. I had this argument 9 years ago with Cliff Mishler at a Chicago Coin Club meeting when I was planning on running for the ANA Board (I had the materials signed but my wife, who was then my fiance, brought me back to sanity to not run). Cliff, who was running for president of the ANA at the time argued that the focus should be on gaining ready made collectors to bolster the organization. I was on the side of going after children and doing presentations at schools. Not necessarily to get them to join now, rather to get the interest in coins and maybe join down the road. In many ways the old guard in our industry failed as much as the ANA itself though the ANA was resistant. One up and coming organization is run by my former employer is the History in Your Hands Foundation which brings historic objects into schools of all levels. While not exclusively numismatic, there is a major numismatic component. Kids can see old coins and money, hear stories and maybe catch the bug. Or maybe have positive associations that will manifest themselves in the future. Bringing numismatics to the next generation is in all of our hands but we all have to put in the time knowing that the results may not be seen any time soon. Its like the Jewish parable of "Honi and the Carob Tree" A man walking down the road sees an old man planting a carob tree which takes decades to fruit yet is planting it anyway for the future generation to enjoy.
@Zoins said: "What truth @Insider2? Talking about the truth is interesting when you make false accusations to get attention. Please provide proof I flagged you. If there was a mistake, we can have the mods take care of it. Otherwise, please stop with the accusations."
The "truth" is about the CSA thread not this one.
For those who have no idea what this post is about, Z and I took care of an "abuse flag" given to me in a PM to him. I learned it was some sort of childish retaliation from another member who I shall not embarrass.
Hopefully, we can return to the subject of this thread an stop "abusing" LS while posting about her comments.
I'm guessing it's a crossover from the monument thread.
Same boat for me. I have not talked to him in weeks. I think he's lost it. I gave him a whack in the other thread as a thank you though.
What's a "whack?' Throwing a "flag" for the fun of it? Newsflash: A flag removes one point. Get too many and you probably are banned. Hopefully, the mods can see what is going on - what's deserved and what is not or some kind of retaliation.
I'm the bad guy now. I've been trolled and flagged by "snowflakes." I don't even know what "spam" or "abuse" is except calling a person a chimp seems to be pushing the line and posting funny videos about someone may be also. That's why I wrote a warning to you guys! Apparently, the PC snowflakes cannot face the truth when both sides are put before them.
You reported abuse for a funny Seinfeld clip about Marine Biology. (Not even anything to do with you by the way!) Once you did that, I went and looked and saw your Racist rant in another thread. Then I flagged you back. If you are going to throw stones for no reason, be prepared for someone to come out chasing you.
Please forgive me if I don't have the pulse of this thread, but I have been following it unfold little-by-little over the last day or two and have not read it in one sitting; which could mean that I am getting confused on some points. However, against my better judgement, I have decided to enter the morass.
I don't understand the idea of pushing for a PhD in numismatics.
Don't get me wrong, I think education is wonderful, but I also believe the PhD degree from an accredited university shouldn't be a major goal of the ANA. The ideas of increasing education, making numismatics fun and interesting and increasing membership levels, participation and reward are great and I am on board with them entirely. However, a PhD has nothing to do with any of these for all but the smallest sliver of the population. A better way to achieve these goals might be to expand and better advertise the correspondence courses that had been at one time offered by the ANA (they may still be offered), to invest the time, resources and money into building out high quality numismatic videos linked on the ANA website and featured in a YouTube station, to aggressively engage social media users and likely to do any number of other things before committing to a PhD program.
@Wabbit2313 said: "You reported abuse for a funny Seinfeld clip about Marine Biology. (Not even anything to do with you by the way!) Once you did that, I went and looked and saw your Racist rant in another thread. Then I flagged you back. If you are going to throw stones for no reason, be prepared for someone to come out chasing you."
I'll ask you to go back to the Stone Mt. thread and defend this libel you just posted. I'll be waiting for you to post any racist remark I made.
BTW, I was a Biology Major in college for two years. At the time, my goal in life was to BECOME A MARINE BIOLOGIST and talk to dolphins! I noted "road" you seem to travel and so I took offense at your "joke" after you referred to LS as a poop-throwing "Chimp!"
@Insider2 said: @Wabbit2313 said: "You reported abuse for a funny Seinfeld clip about Marine Biology. (Not even anything to do with you by the way!) Once you did that, I went and looked and saw your Racist rant in another thread. Then I flagged you back. If you are going to throw stones for no reason, be prepared for someone to come out chasing you."
I'll ask you to go back to the Stone Mt. thread and defend this libel you just posted. I'll be waiting for you to post any racist remark I made.
BTW, I was a Biology Major in college for two years. At the time, my goal in life was to BECOME A MARINE BIOLOGIST and talk to dolphins! I noted "road" you seem to travel and so I took offense at your "joke" after you referred to LS as a poop-throwing "Chimp!"
You have the wrong person dude. I did not call Laura any names. In fact, I have sold her coins several times in the past and bought from her auctions. Wake up and read the chimp response you keep referring to. It was not me!
@lsperber said:
I will say, yet again, Don Kagin, sent me an email of support and again asked for my help on the Set Registry proposal. I promise to him and everyone I am going to do all I can to make the two suggestions work-but I have such limited time and even less influence. Not making excuses, I will try.
I have a prediction: The ANA will exist, substantially unchanged, long after we all are gone. People have been griping about the organization for decades. It's a uniquely bizarre nonprofit, a mix of great and shockingly awful. With its endowment and collection, even without income from members or conventions, it will persist for centuries in some format. In my humble opinion, the most psychologically healthy approach is to take advantage of the good things the ANA offers while they're available and don't waste your energy on the bad.
The ANA does have a lot of room for improvement--but most coin clubs do as well. Currently, they have a TON of work to do on their website, which is complex and has many dead links--a $750 website might have functioned about as well as the $750K one does. This is too bad since the internet is where the hobby is at these days.
As far as the ANA's coin shows, the internet is where coin buying has moved to, and coin shows are basically wholesale events with a few retail customers (maybe) showing up. At least that's been my experience for the last decade. So is there a way to make coin shows once again so important that collectors feel they must attend them or "miss out"? I'm not sure if there is, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. They are excellent as wholesale events, and the retail aspect may not actually be that important to most dealers and maybe it never will be from hereon out.
But we need the ANA as a club, because it connects the hobby, provides a source of crucial information to collectors and dealers alike, and we should all support it.
I have no recollection of "flagging" anyone since I don't use that. I suspect that insider confuses anything anyone posts that he doesn't like as a "flag" of some type.
I have a list of complaints about ANA that are a mile long.
We couldn't get along without them.
I can, but we can't.
Laurie's ideas about a numismatic university?
Estimates of potential students come from...........?
Capital outlays are?
Ongoing operating costs exclusive of salaries?
Instructor availability?
About ten years ago ANA Summer Seminar had enough demand for Grading 101 that they expanded their total attendance by 50 student/weeks overall. That was one additional classroom-full of students per week.
And many of these on scholarships.
National registries?
Monetized how?
Look! A flying pig!
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Comments
We'll said. Business as usual
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Wow! I really wanted to study Marine Biology! It was a passion of mine. Dumbass here busted an eardrum diving when he shouldn't so I changed directions. It just wouldn't be the same without being able to dive.
Here's a thought for improving the ANA convention. In addition to the official auction firms, what if any other legitimate auction firm were allowed to hold a small one-session auction at the show? Perhaps a flat fee of $1000 would be charged to cover the cost of the auction room, and with 5% of the proceeds going to the ANA. Or something like that. I could see 5-10 smaller companies, especially the specialized firms, taking the ANA up on the deal. It would make the show more exciting and more essential to attend.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It could be useful if the auction was on the last day for collectors showing up on the weekend. This way, there would also be more incentive for dealers to stay longer.
For degrees, they could look into a standalone degree program like The American College's MSFS degree for financial advisors. I have no idea how good this, just that it's an accredited stand-alone college/degree. Imagine if this became a credential all dealers wanted to get to break into the market and show their expertise?
https://www.theamericancollege.edu/
I agree with this and think the ANA's structure may not support what some of the membership and employees wish it to accomplish to move numismatics forward. It would be interesting for there to be an discussion on whether a restructuring could accomplish more of its goals.
Institutions are accredited, not stand-alone degrees. The easiest part of creating a numismatic degree program is the curriculum. The real challenge is the accreditation process for the institution. That's a monstrous barrier to the ANA becoming a stand-alone, accredited, degree-granting institution. Another barrier is the required infrastructure to support an institution of higher learning.
The ANA's coordinated educational experience is Summer Seminar. The difference between Summer Seminar the ANA offering a numismatic degree program is the difference between kids playing stickball and the Los Angeles Dodgers.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Perhaps there could be a minor league like a certificate that many universities offer as part of their evening programs? This way the ANA could walk before they run. They already have the classes so they could string them together into a certificate program.
Follow up posted
Part deux for ease
http://www.legendnumismatics.com/hot-topics/last-hot-topics/
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
The bridge is not only on fire, airstrikes have been called in.
I've contended for years that the ANA needs to hire/ recruit from the outside. Blow up the Board of Governors format. On any good functioning board you need ideas from different walks of life's and experiences. Marketing that definitely has to come from the outside. It needs to be blown up. They have missed the boat on so many advancements. It's like "time stood still" is a revered and time honored mandate of the ANA.
The ANA sits on the banks of the River Denial
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Laura's hot topics are the numismatic equivalent of watching a chimp throw poo at a glass barrier in the zoo. We all just watch in disbelief, and she has to live in the mess she created.
She needs to get over herself. Why doesn't she harness all of this anger and vitriol and write a research article for the Numismatist? Or something else constructive of the sorts? Pissing off the leadership who directs the actual doers at the ANA isn't helping anything.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
I could be wrong, but it seems to me that numismatic research is not an ideal outlet for rage. However, I would defer to RWB on this subject.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Doers and ANA should never be uttered in the same sentence. Lol
Isn't that already the crux of the problem? Another dry research article for the Numismatist. Oh boy!
So in my opinion that would be placed in the "fairy tale" category.
Edit: I see Laura clarified: "Last, my idea of a Numismatic University, I did not mean a certified University. The ANA should market its programs via the internet like the online Universities do."
Ok, this makes a lot more sense to me. I think is feasible and could be a really good idea.
The ANA already has a certificate program ... or at least they had one the last time I checked. It was their series of correspondence courses and I think some of the live Summer Seminar courses could be included (although my memory is a little fuzzy on that point).
If the ANA really wants to move forward with a serious educational effort, they need to partner with an accredited college/university. In order for the ANA educational offerings to have meaning, as with a true certificate program, the "certificates" need to be more than an affirmation of payment and attendance. In other words, the participants need to earn the certificate. Also ... the certificates need to have merit in the numismatic field. Currently, that's not the case with ANA educational programs.
The first step is to pay the instructors a stipend and hold them accountable for course and student outcomes. The next ... and this will insult a few folks ... is that instructors need to demonstrate educational competency. While marvelous people volunteer their time to teach for the ANA, many are not trained to be educators and lack the experience of how to teach adults. It's not that the instructors are incapable, they just don't have the background since it's not what they do (they are not teachers by training). This is one of the essential components of an accredited institution of higher learning ... qualified educators.
Don't get me wrong, I have attended (and taught) many Summer Seminar courses and it's a great series of courses taught in a fun environment by some the leading (volunteer) numismatists in the country. It's just not equivalent to university courses. Again ... stickball versus the Dodgers.
See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Roger's rage has seemed more in check as of late
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Zoins
@keets
@Wabbit
This post smacks me as ABUSE (whatever that is): ** Laura's hot topics are the numismatic equivalent of watching a CHIMP throw poo at a glass barrier in the zoo.**
Since I picked up three this evening, my advice to all is to be on the lookout.
I find it interesting that the example of doing something constructive is to write a research article for the Numismatist. I think that is exactly the type of outdated thinking that Laura is referring to. A research article in the Numismatist is not particularly effective in increasing interest and participation in coin collecting.
While Laura's tactics are certainly controversial and we can debate their effectiveness, we are not all watching in disbelief of a chimp throwing feces.
I wasn't one that flagged or disagreed with you. I know how you like those so you won't be that lucky from me
There are certainly doers...it's just not the leadership. There are always doers...and then there are those who can't. The ANA leadership isn't writing the code for the ANA website; thus in that instance, they are not doers.
As for the reference to writing an article for the Numismatist, people obviously missed the sarcasm there. Laura can't even bother herself with spelling and punctuation in her word diarrhea of a stream of consciousness rant, I was NOT serious in suggesting she write a piece of scholarship. Though, that would certainly be humorous.
Does Laura teach at summer seminar? Does she volunteer at local schools to engage kids in numismatics? Has she ever created an educational display at any coin show? Maybe she has, I don't know.
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My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
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This Joker @Insider2 flagged me for abuse for posting a Seinfeld clip. (The Marine Biologist)
I gave a thumbs up!
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
how did I get dragged into this???
I'm guessing it's a crossover from the monument thread.
There are plenty of topics in U.S. numismatics that would lend themselves well to a series of lectures. This could be anywhere from 1-6 hours each with as many parts as make sense to break them up. They can be rated at a number of different levels of complication and specificity so people can choose which ones suit them best. These would not lead to a degree but they would be a little more than just reading an article. Some examples off the top of my head:
The minting process from the hammer to the modern mass production
Failed Denominations and the social/cultural circumstances that led to them
Patterns and the social/cultural circumstances that led to them
Trade dollars and their circulation in China
Early proofs, and the use of proof dies for circulation strikes
The many colors of copper
C, D, CC
Silver Dollars 1905-1920
Lincoln Cents... isn't a century enough
The commemorative process from the classics to modern times
Evolution of counterfeiting
Counterfeit techniques and how to find them
Die design process from hand punches to lasers
Teaching numismatics in primary school
The dead years of circulating coinage 1970-1998
I could probably think of more but these all would make for at least moderately interesting lectures or lecture series.
Conceptually these would be a perfect thing for people who get home from work, eat dinner, put the kids to sleep and want to commit an hour or 2 to furthering their hobby. When I was working retail a lot of people would come in and tell me they collected when they were younger and wanted to get back in. Wouldn't these be a perfect place to refer these people to in order to bring back the spark?
Same boat for me. I have not talked to him in weeks. I think he's lost it. I gave him a whack in the other thread as a thank you though.
Here's a list of CoinTelevision.com's videos:
http://www.cointelevision.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/1748/2016/03/CTV16-WEBSITE-VID-CAT.pdf
Some videos at the ANA's website:
https://www.money.org/video-vignettes
https://www.money.org/LegacySeries
And more at the Newman Portal:
https://nnp.wustl.edu/library/multimedia
Probably lots more worth watching on YouTube.
Not a bad start.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
All this education you'd think the ANA would be swimming in cash. ;-) The problem is, higher education will not pay the bills, or increase membership, and that is the big issue here.
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
What's a "whack?' Throwing a "flag" for the fun of it? Newsflash: A flag removes one point. Get too many and you probably are banned. Hopefully, the mods can see what is going on - what's deserved and what is not or some kind of retaliation.
I'm the bad guy now. I've been trolled and flagged by "snowflakes." I don't even know what "spam" or "abuse" is except calling a person a chimp seems to be pushing the line and posting funny videos about someone may be also. That's why I wrote a warning to you guys! Apparently, the PC snowflakes cannot face the truth when both sides are put before them.
What truth @Insider2? Talking about the truth is interesting when you make false accusations to get attention.
Please provide proof I flagged you. If there was a mistake, we can have the mods take care of it. Otherwise, please stop with the accusations
John I have to disagree with you just a little bit. Getting new people into the ANA is a two step process. Gaining the member and retaining the member. The education portion is a big part of step 2 which creates more knowledgeable collectors that are good for the long term health of our industry.
Step 1 happens 30+ years before step 2. I had this argument 9 years ago with Cliff Mishler at a Chicago Coin Club meeting when I was planning on running for the ANA Board (I had the materials signed but my wife, who was then my fiance, brought me back to sanity to not run). Cliff, who was running for president of the ANA at the time argued that the focus should be on gaining ready made collectors to bolster the organization. I was on the side of going after children and doing presentations at schools. Not necessarily to get them to join now, rather to get the interest in coins and maybe join down the road. In many ways the old guard in our industry failed as much as the ANA itself though the ANA was resistant. One up and coming organization is run by my former employer is the History in Your Hands Foundation which brings historic objects into schools of all levels. While not exclusively numismatic, there is a major numismatic component. Kids can see old coins and money, hear stories and maybe catch the bug. Or maybe have positive associations that will manifest themselves in the future. Bringing numismatics to the next generation is in all of our hands but we all have to put in the time knowing that the results may not be seen any time soon. Its like the Jewish parable of "Honi and the Carob Tree" A man walking down the road sees an old man planting a carob tree which takes decades to fruit yet is planting it anyway for the future generation to enjoy.
@Zoins said: "What truth @Insider2? Talking about the truth is interesting when you make false accusations to get attention. Please provide proof I flagged you. If there was a mistake, we can have the mods take care of it. Otherwise, please stop with the accusations."
The "truth" is about the CSA thread not this one.
For those who have no idea what this post is about, Z and I took care of an "abuse flag" given to me in a PM to him. I learned it was some sort of childish retaliation from another member who I shall not embarrass.
Hopefully, we can return to the subject of this thread an stop "abusing" LS while posting about her comments.
You reported abuse for a funny Seinfeld clip about Marine Biology. (Not even anything to do with you by the way!) Once you did that, I went and looked and saw your Racist rant in another thread. Then I flagged you back. If you are going to throw stones for no reason, be prepared for someone to come out chasing you.
Please forgive me if I don't have the pulse of this thread, but I have been following it unfold little-by-little over the last day or two and have not read it in one sitting; which could mean that I am getting confused on some points. However, against my better judgement, I have decided to enter the morass.
I don't understand the idea of pushing for a PhD in numismatics.
Don't get me wrong, I think education is wonderful, but I also believe the PhD degree from an accredited university shouldn't be a major goal of the ANA. The ideas of increasing education, making numismatics fun and interesting and increasing membership levels, participation and reward are great and I am on board with them entirely. However, a PhD has nothing to do with any of these for all but the smallest sliver of the population. A better way to achieve these goals might be to expand and better advertise the correspondence courses that had been at one time offered by the ANA (they may still be offered), to invest the time, resources and money into building out high quality numismatic videos linked on the ANA website and featured in a YouTube station, to aggressively engage social media users and likely to do any number of other things before committing to a PhD program.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
@Wabbit2313 said: "You reported abuse for a funny Seinfeld clip about Marine Biology. (Not even anything to do with you by the way!) Once you did that, I went and looked and saw your Racist rant in another thread. Then I flagged you back. If you are going to throw stones for no reason, be prepared for someone to come out chasing you."
I'll ask you to go back to the Stone Mt. thread and defend this libel you just posted. I'll be waiting for you to post any racist remark I made.
BTW, I was a Biology Major in college for two years. At the time, my goal in life was to BECOME A MARINE BIOLOGIST and talk to dolphins! I noted "road" you seem to travel and so I took offense at your "joke" after you referred to LS as a poop-throwing "Chimp!"
You have the wrong person dude. I did not call Laura any names. In fact, I have sold her coins several times in the past and bought from her auctions. Wake up and read the chimp response you keep referring to. It was not me!
Head slap! That little troll Insider was last seen slinking off through the tall grass on his way to lay beside a poop covered CSA monument.
That's what I like to hear!
I have a prediction: The ANA will exist, substantially unchanged, long after we all are gone. People have been griping about the organization for decades. It's a uniquely bizarre nonprofit, a mix of great and shockingly awful. With its endowment and collection, even without income from members or conventions, it will persist for centuries in some format. In my humble opinion, the most psychologically healthy approach is to take advantage of the good things the ANA offers while they're available and don't waste your energy on the bad.
The ANA does have a lot of room for improvement--but most coin clubs do as well. Currently, they have a TON of work to do on their website, which is complex and has many dead links--a $750 website might have functioned about as well as the $750K one does. This is too bad since the internet is where the hobby is at these days.
As far as the ANA's coin shows, the internet is where coin buying has moved to, and coin shows are basically wholesale events with a few retail customers (maybe) showing up. At least that's been my experience for the last decade. So is there a way to make coin shows once again so important that collectors feel they must attend them or "miss out"? I'm not sure if there is, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. They are excellent as wholesale events, and the retail aspect may not actually be that important to most dealers and maybe it never will be from hereon out.
But we need the ANA as a club, because it connects the hobby, provides a source of crucial information to collectors and dealers alike, and we should all support it.
I have no recollection of "flagging" anyone since I don't use that. I suspect that insider confuses anything anyone posts that he doesn't like as a "flag" of some type.
I have a list of complaints about ANA that are a mile long.
We couldn't get along without them.
I can, but we can't.
Laurie's ideas about a numismatic university?
Estimates of potential students come from...........?
Capital outlays are?
Ongoing operating costs exclusive of salaries?
Instructor availability?
About ten years ago ANA Summer Seminar had enough demand for Grading 101 that they expanded their total attendance by 50 student/weeks overall. That was one additional classroom-full of students per week.
And many of these on scholarships.
National registries?
Monetized how?
Look! A flying pig!