I bought an Indian Head and I need opinions because I'm clueless on copper. UPDATE: Spot removed
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Updated pic with the spot removed; https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/11778502/#Comment_11778502
Purchased as part of a bigger "collection" if you can call it that.
Yes, there's a spot on the obverse that seems to be PVC or something. I want to remove or neutralize it. I've heard acetone can mess with copper, is it still alright to use here?
Second thing, any thoughts on a grade? Yes, the pictures are accurate, the obverse is more red than the reverse.
Higher res here but be warned that imgur seems to be having issues tonight.
2
Comments
Looks like a Brown and Red (more brown than red on the important side) Uncirculated coin with an improper alloy mix. Two corrosion spots.
What's going on with the rim around 8 o'clock on the obverse?
Oh, acetone will not hurt it. I'd use coin care first, then try to push off the "black" using a stereo microscope and something sharp like a sharpened toothpick. Remove the Care with acetone. One of the conservation services should be able to fix it up nice. There are more things that can be done with different products that should not be attempted without experience. It is virtually impossible to ruin your coin with what I've told you.
Looks like a rim scrape.
This is a good date and has value. But not as exists. The coins will ultimately be RB or BN. First off, just immerse the coin in acetone for maybe an hour ( or longer as acetone is not acidic and does not effect the coin's surface), rinse and inspect for any progress. If you have PVC on the obverse, it should be gone. And once you have removed the overlying toning layer the coin may be nice. If you are not happy, you might try MS70 or similar product using a rinse in distilled water. This is about as far as I would go myself in restoring the coin. Past this our host offers restoration services that will provide more expert opinion.
OINK
Oops, meant 7 o'clock
Certainly has potential - not much to add over what's already been stated.
I'm not sure if the shallow 'N' variety of this date commands a premium like some other dates do, but it may be worth checking out.
Nice old IHC.... needs to have the gunk removed... appears to have a slightly weak strike on the right reverse....could be a slightly thin planchet... even a little weak there on the obverse... Cheers, RickO
Read what OINK posted. I did not want to reveal MS-70 to you due to the title of your post. This is only one of the very good products to conserve copper and AFAIK it is usually the first choice. Trouble is if there it one spot of reddish corrosion on your coin it will bring it out more, often in a detracting way.
That discoloration next to "one" may be some of this. MS-70 does not remove etched, black, corrosion. The conservation folks at NCS or PCGS probably know what to do.
MS-70 should be in every coin dealers bathroom....:) Don't worry about the "blue." If it "turns" it can be easily removed.
That's ok, he/she is probably on a different time zone.
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Nice addition!
My YouTube Channel
Acetone soak and a rose thorn.
Looks better with the spot removed.
I just noticed in your new pictures that there are some scattered PVC spots around the rim on the obverse.
Nice job.... the acetone usually does the trick....
Acetone will not remove the toning layer as stated above.
MS-70 will turn it blue or pink or a combination of the colors 50% of the time. The only way to remove that color is dip it, and I promise you, it will never get in a holder once you do that.
Finally, it is ridiculous how hard it is to get an Indian graded these days. So many come back questionable color.
@Wabbit2313 said: "Acetone will not remove the toning layer as stated above. MS-70 will turn it blue or pink or a combination of the colors 50% of the time. The only way to remove that color is dip it, and I promise you, it will never get in a holder once you do that."
Rats, I was itching to push the
button. I disagree with all but the last sentence above.
Acetone WILL lighten up some types of toning. Mostly however, your Q-tip will be darker from the dirt and "skin" if it is also present and I rarely encounter a "raw" Indian cent that cannot be cleaned to improve it.
While I'll agree that MS-70 will turn coins blue, in my extensive experience cleaning coins (sorry, I need to reveal that to add "weight" to my opinion), the percentage is not near 50% unless there is something else (?) besides acetone in the reaction.
BTW, there are proprietary methods to remove much of the black corrosion from the rim or edge ONLY w/o dipping the entire coin and ruining it.
Finally, I'll add that the "blue color" is already on the coin's surface and the acetone or MS-70 just reveals it by removing any overlying contamination...LOL!
DEFINITELY NOT TRUE
PS Nice job OP.
I guess I should have added on Uncirculated Indians. They turn a funky color about 1/2 the time when I have used MS70.
In the old days, it was easy to turn an Indian "red" with a dip and they would holder them. Not anymore.
@Wabbit2313 said: "In the old days, it was easy to turn an Indian "red" with a dip and they would holder them. Not anymore."
Well, you must have done it yourself and sent them in otherwise I'll take your statement as hearsay! Did you do it with your personal submissions?
If not, them's fighting words! So, ANACS, NCI, and INSAB - the only game in town - graded dipped and unnaturally red copper. That's my "old day's," way before the others came along. Hard to believe.
What I will believe (I've seen it for myself) is in the mid-1980's the "new" TPGS's went through the same "learning process" the other services that predated them had to go through. Many mistakes due to surface alterations were missed that were not tolerated at other services. From what I determined under high magnification at the time (1986), the unnatural color you may be alluding to was not caused by coin dip.
Go look on Coinfacts, you will see a bunch of bright red dipped indians.
@Wabbit2313 said: "Go look on Coinfacts, you will see a bunch of bright red dipped indians."
LOL. Glad to learn you were not trying to "scam" the TPGS's. I'm going to make a "nutty" post too just to make a point: There are probably professional photographers who can make the image of a natural red Indian cent appear to be yellow with black eyes and a smile. Get it? Since your opinion is based on computer images it is well ....
Sorry to say, but not really.
I have no idea what you are talking about, and not sure you do either??
@Wabbit2313 said: I have no idea what you are talking about, and not sure you do either??
Here is what I do know:
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``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5