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1876-CC Trade $1 Type 1/1 (non-Wide CC, non-DDR)
mbogoman
Posts: 5,319 ✭✭✭✭✭
Picked this up a few months ago on Ebay and just got it back from our host. Its got great eye appeal with light toning, halos around the devices and only the slightest bit of wear on the high points. It’s a very scarce die pairing, with only 6 examples passing through Heritage over the past decade (and 4 of those were impaired!). My non-scientific research shows only two graded higher. The AU58 grade fits right in with my AU set, so I’m very pleased with the outcome!
mbogoman
Asesabi Lutho
9
Comments
They come in clusters but any AU 58 76cc is special. I love the type one 76cc mine is only a ok VF great score
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Really nice eye appeal there!
bob:)
Anyone know how many CC reverses were used on the 1/1 76's?
Exactly 3 reverse dies;
Slanted upward
Wide CC 1.2mm
DDR
The other two
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Very nice, wholesome 58 on a scarce hub combo. Nice pickup!
Yeah, I'm still looking for a decent "Wide CC" to complete the trio...
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Great coin, mint and grade!
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Nice find, that's a tough coin. Here's my example:
Very nice.
Great pick-up! That is a very scarce Trade Dollar.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
Here is one, and it is a quartet FYI
wait what are we talking about
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Nice find, congrats on the grade. I have the other 2 as well but haven't had any luck so far on this one.
Congrats! Great coin
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Very nice coin... I like the CC Trade dollars... I have a nice chopmarked one... I have the complete date set of CC's, but have not tried to collect the die pairings etc.. Cheers, RickO
A CC date set was my original goal when I started out on this quest, then I saw Crypto's set and it was sooooooo interesting and educational, and before I knew it, I was under the spell and found myself unable to resist the pull!!!
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Lol funny part is that is how I started too, I wanted a CC set and then added the hub types and errors (s/cc, 76cc DDR) and then I was like well I already have the pricey ones (wrong). Joe took me under his wing and that was that.
I am convinced specialization is the key for hobby enjoyment, at least for me.
That is a great coin with good age on it's surfaces. Should be a highlight of any special if you trade dollar collection
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Beautiful coin and nice find!
Joe has been very generous with his knowledge and helpful to me, too. I sure wish he would finish his book!
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Bump
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
Looks like a couple others up there sold recently on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1876-CC-Trade-Dollar-MS61-PCGS-/201966907252?hash=item2f062a6f74:g:1dMAAOSwvflZUpHY&nma=true&si=3IhdTl019ydKsZo%2F%2FS19vMDGjEg%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1876-CC-TRADE-DOLLAR-PCI-BU-RARE-Lot-306-/122631512295?hash=item1c8d6860e7:g:awkAAOSwNJ5ZhIA7
logger7, those are both the much more readily available type 1/2.
Very nice trade dollar! I am looking for a 76 CC myself!
Kaz is spot on the 1/1 (not DDR) are quite rare, here is a handy chart I made
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
The 76-CC is one of my very favorite Trade Dollars. It has everything, starting with the very cool Carson City mint mark. Many circulated in the old west, as well many were shipped to California then across the Pacific Ocean for trade with China.
As discussed here, there are three very distinct reverses: the I/I; the I/I DDR; and the I/II. The DDR is a very wide, very obvious doubling. Despite that, you can still cherry pick it. It can sell for a 50-75 percent premium over the I/II. Even scarcer is the I/I not DDR. That one (if you can find it) you can usually pick up for the price of the more common (although it's not common in an absolute sense) I/II. Then, as has been pointed out here there are very different Type I reverses. I am fortunate in that I have been able to pick up examples of all three.
Complete Set of Chopmarked Trade Dollars
Carson City Silver Dollars Complete 1870-1893http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase.aspx?sc=2722"
Nice addition! When I was actively collecting US, I always wanted a nice 76CC TD T1 non-DDR but never found one I liked. The OP coin would have fit nicely. Congratulations!
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
The chart is only missing one particularly interesting 76-P, right @Crypto?
I like it
Sort of. While the 4finger is referred to as a 1.5/2 it is really just a 1/2 with a finger cut into the die. It isn't a hub type and there is no 1.5 hub so it can't really be a hub type
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I sent my 75cc to PCGS last week, a major NE dealer questioned the mm, said it could be added. http://i.imgur.com/gWkhrTD.jpg http://i.imgur.com/P64H0JF.jpg Cleaned though.
Highly doubt it's an added MM. If it's an added MM, it's also a removed (SF) MM. That's not a Philadelphia coin.
Do we really know it's just a finger cut into the die? The fingers on the outstretched hand of that variety all look too good and uniform for one finger to have been added later. I'd rather buy the theory that the 76-P Type II obverse had recut fingers on the outstretched hand, they all look like they were hand engraved with haste.
Look who's turned into the resident Internet Troll
Here is a photo of an 1876-CC Dollar (from my inventory) grading PCGS AU58 (CAC) with the doubled die reverse.
I especially love the "second stem" running more-or-less below and parallel to the main stem on the reverse. This second stem shows in the photo as a lighter area below the stem.
....
....
Photo courtesy of W. David Perkins Numismatics
....
W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
Anyway, I was enjoying the conversation so let's continue.
Here's a close-up of the outstretched hand on the "Type 1.5/2" or "re-cut" variety. We don't know how or why it's there, but in my opinion it's clear that's another finger. What's less clear is what the thing above it is. Is it an extension of the branch, the index finger (wait 6 fingers?) or a berry?
Here's a close-up of the same area on the 76 Type 2/2. Looks a lot more rough to me, as if it was cut into the die hastily. Same number of fingers as above, but much different and less polished (IMO) look. Also, this one would seem to show that the thing above the hand is an extension of the olive branch.
Keep in mind that the pictures can fool your eyes due to being 2D, with specific lighting. There are definitely 4 distinct pieces of metal for the fingers on each.
*note the host coins are both proofs, although circulation strikes also exist.
@Crypto Shame on you
Posting that decade old out-of-date chart. Aren't you a member of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club?
Weasel word "basic?"
I know there are lots of little variances.... of the two different main types. There are not more than a type one & two IMO. All the little feather differences are just that little feather differences of the type two hub types.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
I have held that coin back when it was in the Linda collection and always thought it was an UNC that was dinged for it's audacity of never having been dipped. One of the few slider CCs (esp a better date) that one can say that about.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
@Crypto said: "I know there are lots of little variances.... of the two different main types. There are not more than a type one & two IMO. All the little feather differences are just that little feather differences of the type two hub types.
For those who believe there are only Type 1 and Type 2 reverses plus some coins with "little feather differences" you
may wish to look at some of the "little variances" on these coins that Trade Dollar researchers' have discovered and have published in the Gobrecht Journal of the Liberty Seated Collectors Club.
Note the protruding back feather on a completely different hub that is either unknown to most numismatists or in the case of this thread - just ignored. It is found on the middle dates between the two reverses shown in the "out-of-date-chart posted in this thread.
At the moment, the issue of how many actual hubs exist for the obverse and reverse of Trade dollars is not settled due to further discoveries..
I believe that many of the individuals that have posted to this thread are aware of the existence of the 'M' and 'L' secondary hub types, but choose to classify the features described in the chart above as the most prominent, defining features of a general hub description in this series. Ever since the discovery of the features you describe, we don't define a 'Type 3' or 'Type 4'; we still describe such detail as subsidiary features of main hub types, e.g., Type 2L Obverse/Type 2L Reverse. The chart provided by @Crypto still serves as a solid general rule of thumb in identifying the most obvious delineating features between the two primary hub types of the series (Note that the chart explicitly denotes 'Main pick up points').
You're lucky I am not versed in the the computer eye roll symbols.
There was most likely dozens of hubs created and used over the series and each doesn't warrant a "type". The little stuff that the more "detailed orientated" tend focus on should be classifyied as mechanical / creation variances with some being more minor than others. But as always people are welcome to collect what they like
The type one / two hubs that my list denotes and are long settled labeling system that comprises the generations of hubs used to make the dies for the series.
Gen 1 ( type 1) - initial series made off of the original design by W. Barber
Gen 2 ( type 2) - after quality issues were brought to the mint's attention by L. Snowden who issued a formal complaint which instigated a director ( Linderman ) mandated re-engineering / redesign. Upon finishing the 20c project, Barber began modifying the design later that year, reducing the relief and addressing the high point issues. He completed the the rev in time to have a few dies made in 75 and the obv by 76. While the efforts were ongoing there are some obv/rev mash up combos produced before the new series was mandated.
As you can see the type 1,2 isn't just about little detail differences but a generational thing. Yes there are large naked eye difference between the barber designs but it comes down to they are either original or after the redesign.
You are focusing too much on minor mechanical design creep caused by random engravers and die workers. While varieties, they hardly count as types.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
LOL, Cheerios dollars don't exist either. There should not be a Type one or Type two 1886 1C. And those crazy IKE dollar collectors. A collector can accept anything or ignore anything they choose to collect. IMO, one day Trade dollars will be as researched as 1794 Large cents. By then there will still be two types of collectors - those who own one 1794 Large cent and think they have filled a hole and knowledgeable collectors who share the intricacies of coins with that date.
I'll be interested to see how the promised Trade dollar reference treats this subject. I may have egg all over my face. LOL.
Ditto the above to the other member. As a Trade dollar expert (you not me), I cannot believe you think "random engravers" worked on the hubs. "Design creep?" Your digging a big hole of uninformed nonsense here. Perhaps you should look up some of the terms you are tossing out!
Anyway, Best Regards
PS You posted that I'm lucky you are not versed in the computer eye roll symbols. I'll have you know that on one coin form I am known as the emoji menace.
:android:
:angelic:
:arghh:
:artist:
:astronaut:
:bag:
:banhappy:
:banghead:
:bear:
:beaver:
:bigtears:
:blackalien:
:blackeye:
:bookworm:
:bored:
:borg:
:brb:
:bucktooth:
:cat:
:chicken:
:cigar:
:clown:
:cold:
:coldfeet:
:couchpotato:
:cow:
:cyclops:
:dead:
:depressed:
:doctor:
:droid:
:drowning:
:eggface:
:facepalm:
:greedy:
:greyalien:
:grumpy:
:happy:
:headphone:
:hilarious:
:hungover:
:hungry:
:hurting:
:inpain:
:jawdrop:
:jimlad:
:joyful:
:link:
:lock:
:lurking:
:meh:
:muted:
:nailbiting:
:nurse:
:oldman:
:panda:
:peeking:
:penguin:
:phantom:
:pics:
:pigeon:
:playful:
:pompous:
:punch:
:shame:
:shifty:
:shy:
:singing:
:smug:
:smuggrin:
:snaphappy:
:sorry:
:sour:
:spam:
:spitoutdummy:
:stinkyfeet:
:stop:
:troll:
:turtle:
:vamp:
:vomit:
:vulcan:
:wacky:
:watching:
:wideyed:
:woot:
:writer:
:yack:
:yawn:
:yuck:
:zombie:
:mad:
:cool:
:eek:
:oops:
:rolleyes:
o_O
I also like the eagle's "chin whisker". There are quite a few counterfeit DDR's out there as well. One that I have seen has a forger's mark, a curved line across the center of the O in OF.