King Fourak Collection
oldgoldlover
Posts: 429 ✭✭✭
I am reading a book on the 1933 $20 Saint. The book revolves are the tremendous coin collection the Egyptian king (Farouk) acquired in the 30s and 40s. As anyone ever acquired or seen a coin that was slabbed as being in his collection? Farouk had acquired numerous very rare U.S. coins that were sold by the new government after he was exiled and I have never heard or seen a coin pedigreed back to his collection. Norweb went to bid on some of his coins along with the heavy hitting British and U.S. dealers of the era.
Farouk had the only legal 1933 $20 in this collection along with a 5 C 1913 Liberty.
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BillDugan1959
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IIRC, the story was that John J. Pittman mortgaged his house to go to the Palace Sale, and the coins he bought there later made his reputation as a great numismatist.
The book/ anthology "Abe Kosoff Remembers" has at least one chapter devoted to Mr. Kosoff, his wife, and his business partner all attending the Palace Sale. The whole book is very worthwhile, but his writing about traveling over to, and being in Egypt at this time, are a highlight. Available on Amazon and highly recommended.
Hans M. F. Schulman no doubt wrote about this sale too, as Farouk owed him significant unpaid monies for merchandise at the time of the 1952 Military coup. Luckily, it seems the new government honored at lot of this debt.
Overall, if you dig, I don't think there is a lot of mystery about what happened to Farouk's coins, but it is all very interesting.
An mportant slabbed coin marked "Pittman" may well lead back to Farouk (but Pittman was such a prolific collector, that isn't necessarily true either).
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BillDugan1959
Posts: 3,821 ✭✭✭✭✭
Several old time dealers told me their stories about this gentleman. I myself observed him on the bourse floor. Mr. Pittman probably didn't just limit himself to "a sick feeling in the gut".
But he was a smart guy, he bought decent insurance. Looks like it took three years to get paid.
The customs form lists twenty damaged coins. The Pittman auctions ultimately featured what, 12,000 lots?
Yes, it is nicer to think that none of the coins were lost or stolen. You couldn't count on that kind of ethical behavior today.
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Here are some:
Here's one with a TrueView:
Here's a photo of the cards Abe Kosoff made and included when selling coins from the Farouk collection:
There's more discussion in this thread:
That 1800 Gold Eagle is certainly a beauty.... Cheers, RickO
The finer of the two 1861 Paquet Reverse is pedigreed to King Farouk....
These are cool:
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Great background material! Imagine today's value if not damaged.
Very wow, knock your socks off kind of stuff!
Fascinating documents. I've been acquainted with the Pittman family through 3 generations, and never knew about the calamity with the damaged coins before this.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
I had thought that the King employed a staff of coin cleaners, so not many people would list the pedigree, as they wouldn't want you looking too closely. Does anyone know if that's true?
I just love old Numismatic documents. Thanks for sharing these!
W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
I'd be thrilled to have a Great Britain Gold Pattern Proof 2 Guineas dated 1733, even if it had edge damage and was (possibly) cleaned.
Most of us would be tickled to have any one of those damaged coins listed on that U.S. Customs form.
What a great read. Thanks for posting the documentation. Can you imagine the sick feeling in your gut after hearing your entire purchase falling off the truck and getting trampled while looking to pick them all up in the dark??!!
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
It is very commendable to say that after the accident, all the coins were still there.
Geeze..................that's a heartbreaking story.
Pete
Do not know about a staff but he was bad about cleaning copper and silver.
I am at the point in the book where the 1933 has surfaced and is about to be sold. The coin disappeared from the auction but fortunately the Feds did not get it. It was sold by an Egyptian to Steve Fenton (SP?) for $200,000. Fenton and the dealer that were buying from the Egyptian were splitting profits from resale as the dealer that had the connection with the seller and Fenton the money. I was very tired when i put the book down so I cannot remember the Egyptian seller. He had sold many very nice gold coins to these guys and apparently the coins were retained from a politico that was in a powerful position after Farouk was run off.
THANKS TO EVERY ONE THAT posted, especially the docs and coin. Those 1861 DE were very nice. i wonder what Farouk paid for them as early on the Parquet was not highly valued. I would recommend this book to any history buff, coins lover or not.
What is strange is the Feds did not get around to chasing the 1933s that got out until the mid 40s. Why they waited so long was never addressed in the book. There are at least 14 1933 DEs out. Two are in the Smithsonian, one in the museum in NY that the buyer loaned but did not donate, ten the Swit family has and a last one that was photographed but has not yet turned up. There is probably more but the book did not get the mint numbers and the amount melted plus those that are known to be out to reconcile.
Schulman was given credit on coins he bought when auctioned.
I made a very general statement about Hans M.F. Schumann's unique position at the Palace sale so I wouldn't have to go and dig out some old books. IIRC, Schulman had such large credits granted by the new government that he actually offered some discrete American bidders that Schulman would buy the coins they wanted with his credits and then offer those parties the coins they desired at a cash discount. He was very anxious to use up his credits.
So what exactly do you disagree with?
Frankly, the Egyptian Revolution of 1952 was a pretty damn civilized affair, as revolutions go.
It might be very interesting to compare the list of the damaged coins to the pictures in the Pittman catalog. And , when known, to the TPG grades later assigned. FWIW, I do remember the lightly bent Moffatt $20, but there were no fresh scratches or other damage. Hard to believe it was damaged like that as described in the letter!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I hope King Cardinal doesn't get exiled.
The Secret Service was alerted in 1944 about the stolen 1933 double eagles by King Farouk's 1944 request for an export license for one from the Treasury Department.
Somebody in the Treasury Department wondered what was so special about a 1933 coin that a king wanted one.
Another coin related to King Farouk:
Egypt pound 1955 - Third anniversary of Egyptian Revolution
Gold, 23mm, 8.48gm, 0.8750 (21 carat)
The post-Farouk Egyptian government issued this gold coin to commemorate the sacking of King Farouk.
This coin has an image of the Egyptian Pharaoh Rameses II riding a chariot, but ironically King Farouk would have appreciated the image as he liked to race his modern chariots around Egypt.
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
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He got his money back in another way and more. As a result I find it hard to think he left the world owed anything by the Egyptian govt. He was the status quo for the coin dealers of the time.