SH's Early ANA Show Report
Desert Moon
Posts: 6,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
Hi Folks,
**PART 1 **
Well I am already back from ANA and as usual it was a good time. I got up at 4 am on Tuesday to get my early flight to Denver. We landed on time at 8:44 am, I hopped a taxi and was at lot viewing by 9:30 am. I wanted to do a careful look at the bust quarters before I bid. I was interested in the 4 1815 counterstamps. I had identified the 2 I was interested in, and I spent a good hour with the 4 and was able to confirm that 1 of the 2 I had liked online was the one I was going to bid on.
Before putting in my Ha bid I wanted to see what was on the floor. I also brought 20 coins to sell, and wanted to hit the dealer tables to see if we could agree on prices. These were coins I bought anywhere from 10 years ago to recent, 80% were CAC and very nice - but my emphasis now is really 3 fold - bust quarters, Conder tokens, and branch mint gold. For the latter, this is horribly expensive, so I have selected certain dates and I only have a few left before I am done. Since I only work with one dealer in gold, and my few pieces remaining are both uber expensive and in multiple levels of demand, gold acquisition is slow. So it is the other two areas I generally find on the bourse, if I can.
Since I am doing this as a collector, I don't expect to make money or even recover all of my funds I put into these coins in the current market when it it time to sell. So I spent all of Tuesday hawking the coins. The dealers I work with are all decent folks, they want my price on each, then we sit down and go through the recent auctions and try to place a value on them. This takes some time. In some cases, the prices have gone up and I make a little bit. In other cases, prices have dipped and I can't hope to recover everything. We have frank conversations, the dealers want about a 15% mark up. So mostly the prices I get are 15% down of auction records. Overall, despite paying aggressive prices for very nice coins for the grade, I recovered 92 cents on the dollar spent. I won't complain about that given the current market and I consider the 8% loss a collecting fee. Dealers have to make some coin so I really don't mind - if they lose money, we lose dealers and that won't work. Over Tuesday and Wednesday am, I was able to sell all but 2 of the 20 I brought. The other 2 are very nice and also CAC, but prices have dropped so much I just could not sell them for anything but a major loss.
Two of the dealers had bust quarters I was interested in, so we did cash and trade deals. In the meantime, one dealer showed me a coin that was on my list. It is a 1818 bust quarter, the Browning 9, R5- (<75 extant). These are split into several die states. The highest graded example is an AU58 at each NGC and PCGS (different coins). There are 2 or 3 55's. Among the die states, some of them have a unique set of obverse die clashes in the bust quarter series where the 25 C. and arrows on the reverse are strongly clashed on the obverse above Miss Liberty's cap. These are about 50% of the extant examples, the others don't show the clashes or are weakly imprinted after a die polish. Honestly, all of the die states have their own interest and are very very rare. When they come up for auction, they go for 4x the published MV's for 1818 bust quarters. I bid on one in 2015 Ha for an N58 and was outbid by a major dealer for Moon money. We talked afterwards and he told me he was authorized by his client to go even higher because the likelihood of another coming available was many years in the future. So you can see these are rare, and have cool clashes making then very interesting pieces to have if you like the bust quarter series.
Okay after that long winded explanation - so the 1818 B9 I was shown to me Tuesday afternoon and was a N55. The dealer said it was show only, because he had a committed buyer but he still wanted me to see it. Well it was gorgeous and for me, it had the strong impressions of the clashes. I did not notice at the time because I was really looking at the coin, but the label also said 'Browning Plate Coin'. So I wanted that coin, the dealer had priced it right based on auction records. In the end he said, 'okay I am going to dinner with the buyer tonite and I will press him for an answer'. 'Aha I said, so it on hold but not fully committed yet'. So we joked and I told my dealer friend to just get the other guy to not like it. Dealer said 'well he is abit concerned because it is in an NGC holder'. I said 'perfect, talk him out of it then'. Wednesday morning arrived, I went to the dealers table, and he said 'still no answer I have asked him to give me one by 10'. So I trundled around the bourse looking for more bust quarters, and finding none of interest - some nice high grade examples (64 and above) that are above my grade interest, but nothing else new that was within it. At 10 I went back 'still no answer I will get one by noon'. I was headed to the airport at 2 pm so I let my dealer friend know what the window was. By this time I had pretty much figured the guy was going to take it - I by that time knew who it was and this was a coin he would like. So around 12:30 I went back to the dealer table, first thing he said was 'bad news and good news' (thinking okay then it is over) ' good news is he passed, bad news is you owe me a check'. Turns out the other guy already had a gorgeous one in N35/CAC (I think that was it) and was happy to keep it. The image he showed me later, well the eye appeal was fantastic on the 35 and I can see why he decided to pass. We had a nice laugh about the whole thing and we both walked away from this with nice quarters.
So here it is below. Using Photograde Online, it has the wear of a 55, strong luster for the grade, and no major surface problems. The cheek has a strong light grey rub spot on it that stands out, but it looks better in hand than my image shows for that area (With a coin this rare, you can't always get perfection, just close to it.....). But it is all there for the clashes and nicely toned to boot. The other collector, his son and I discussed whether I should try to cross it. I might do that before I send it to CAC, accepting a 53 minimum grade which is probably what it would get. It won't affect the value going down to P53 given the rarity and interest in this variety. Turns out not only is it the Browning Plate Coin, but also the Rea et al. Early Quarters book Plate Coin as well for the variety, will a nice listing of the ownership history for my piece in the book - Rory himself owned it when he used it as the plate for his book. Looks like it is tied for 3rd on the condition census.
More about the show later this has taken a while to write up.
Best, SH
Comments
Thank you for taking the time to pound out a few lines. I am glad that you had a pleasant experience in Denver. Best of luck on your bids.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Thanks for the report! Love those clashed arrowheads.
Nice report. I enjoyed reading it!
I always enjoy reading show reports, thanks for posting.
Thank you for the interesting show report. Great newp.
Loved your report...very interesting read!
Good eye, I like the powdery blue and grey toning.
Nice coin and report.
Thank you so much--loved it
Great report SH, I enjoyed reading your thoughts. Don't know much about bust quarters, but man!! - that's the kind I could fall in love with! Awesome clashing!!!
-d
Congratulations on your new coin. What a cool piece of history!
I liked reading your report. I love coin shows and wish I would have gone.
Nice report. I really love the clashed arrowheads above her head. I would have bought it just for that reason!
@spacehayduke
4 AM is a great time to be out and about, most people are asleep and the hoodlums are done for the night.
92 cents on the dollar is not that bad when you use the funds to 'improve' your collection
Most of all.......................thanks for the show report for those of us that seem to never have the time to attend
PS good [great] luck finding your "busties".
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Nice Report and Nice Coin.
I do not understand why you went to the show with this state of mind shown below. Collectors do not have to lose money or even break even if they use all venues to sell the coins they no longer want. Its a Wives Tale that collectors always lose money on their sales.
Since I am doing this as a collector, I don't expect to make money or even recover all of my funds I put into these coins in the current market when it it time to sell. So I spent all of Tuesday hawking the coins. The dealers I work with are all decent folks, they want my price on each, then we sit down and go through the recent auctions and try to place a value on them. This takes some time. In some cases, the prices have gone up and I make a little bit. In other cases, prices have dipped and I can't hope to recover everything. We have frank conversations, the dealers want about a 15% mark up. So mostly the prices I get are 15% down of auction records. Overall, despite paying aggressive prices for very nice coins for the grade, I recovered 92 cents on the dollar spent. I won't complain about that given the current market and I consider the 8% loss a collecting fee. Dealers have to make some coin so I really don't mind - if they lose money, we lose dealers and that won't work. Over Tuesday and Wednesday am, I was able to sell all but 2 of the 20 I brought. The other 2 are very nice and also CAC, but prices have dropped so much I just could not sell them for anything but a major loss.
Thanks Much for the Show Report.
Ken
Great report...wish I could have been there. Nice pickup on the Quarter.
Good report and really cool coin! Great pick-up!
Generic coin show "report" template:
I went to a coin show in [insert city name]. This show is a [major national show, or big regional show, or smaller regional show, or a club show]. I traveled by [airplane, or automobile, or other]. I went to [auction lot viewing/ to the auction, or walked the floor, or both]. Needless to say, there were coins for sale (but they always say it anyway). I [did see, or didn't see] some coins that I wanted to acquire. These coins [did, or did not cause me some anxiety]. I [did, or did not] buy a coin(s). I [did, or didn't] bring anything to sell. If I did bring things to sell, I [did, or didn't] get that accomplished. Overall, on those sales, I [cut a fat hog, or made a little money, or lost a little money, or lost my Hienie]. I went home. End of report.
The expert generic coin show reporter could post a photograph of a coin (any coin will do), but anything else is totally verboten.
To make your report the absolutely most generic, DO NOT mention the size of the crowd, the ease or difficulties of parking and registration, the quality /size of the show facility [convention center, hotel ballroom, fraternal or trade hall, or other venue), the atmosphere/ sentiment of the crowd on the bourse floor, "the floor BUZZ", were there any exhibits, were there any truly memorable special exhibits, were there supply and book dealers, were there any clubs with booths, was The U.S. Mint or the BEP in attendance, were the TPGs in attendance, were there any good speakers on the program, were there any great speakers on the program, were there any worthwhile freebies, and above all, DO NOT mention the quality and prices of any concessions and DO NOT DARE to mention the (always sensitive) mustard situation. The good generic show reporter will not dare consider any alcoholic beverages or expensive restaurant food, as that stuff detracts from available monies for coin acquisitions. A good generic show reporter will rarely visit the nearby hotels for any reason, but if they do, they will not mention it.
This generic coin show "report" template and accompanying guidelines (to keep your report fully generic) may be copied and retained for ease in generating future uninformative generic show reports.
Verboten is a strong word @BillDugan1959
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Nice write up - thanks for sharing, and glad your perseverance paid off!
Looking forward to part 2.
Ich habe keine Ahnung, warum du so gesprochen hast.
Ich denke, jeder Bericht von jemandes Erfahrung bei einer "Show" ist großartig.
Wenn Sie es nicht mögen oder schätzen ... bewegen Sie sich auf.
Nur meine bescheidene Meinung:
To reiterate {translate} ............this is just my humble opinion, no offense meant to anyone
Trust me "Bill" ..I liked the report.
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb, Ricko
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
Thanks for the report. That's a great coin and a huge congrats on adding it to your collection!
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
Wow....I really enjoyed all the details...wish I was there...sounds like the hunt was a lot of fun...and your persistence really paid off!!! Great coin!!!
I know branch gold is one of your areas of interest...anything to report there...or is that coming in Part 2...can't wait for the second installment!!! Thanks again for taking the time to share!!!
I could have eked out 15-20% more selling on the BST and I do sell some coins there. But to sell the 20 I took with me, at dealer pricing, we are talking at least 6 months on the BST or more, for the right buyer having funds, and wanting to pay dealer prices to come along and buy them. So because I want to put that money back into my current collecting interest, I chose instead to sell to trusted dealers for these. Let the dealers find the buyers at the dealer price levels, I would rather be collecting with the money I received instead. I made some good money on a few of them, and the dealers that bought them are banking they can flip with 15% increase. They are taking a risk in this market and I hope it pays off for them.
And in fact, I talked to dealers about how they are doing in various parts of the market right now. One dealer told me that what he is selling, which are very nice coins but common, he can't even sell them at large losses right now the market is dropping so quickly. And that dealer has to pay table fees, etc, and make a living at this. I think we are going to see an interesting transition in the coin market over the next couple years.
I would also note that the folks like MCM, APMEX, were flipping bullion as fast as they could bring it out of the box. It seems like that part of the market is hot collector grade bullion coins. Folks were scooping up the bullion coins at those tables at light speed. That was interesting to see.
Best, SH
PART 2 tomorrow -
Thanks for the report and nice coin! Some of us do not know everything and appreciate the information, looking forward to part 2.
I absolutely loved this report!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great quarter.
Nice looking coin, Congrats!
U.S. Type Set
That is a top-shelf B9 for sure. Congrats on the acquisition.
Sweet coin! You can't walk up to a dealer every day and ask to see their Browning plate coins. Great purchase.
Thank for the report.
Great images SH. Pretty coin. Love the clash.
Congratulations on getting a Browning plate coin! That's a huge score in my view. Good to see you at the show.
Congrats - glad you made the show and came home with a nice quarter!
Thanks for the report....and the acquisition intrigue acquiring the quarter. Also the addition about the bullion market seeming to be hot... I have been expecting this.... Look forward to Part Two.... Cheers, RickO
Love the coin, and glad I'm not competing for those.
I love the coin and thanks for that detailed report. I have always had difficulty selling at coin shows. Perhaps I need an attitude adjustment.
Tom
Nice show report, but what I really liked is the passion that you show for the coins in your series, the thrill of the "hunt", and the trials and tribulations of negotiation.
Many of us also feel this way about our collecting, but it can be hard to put into words, at least a story that others can appreciate.
I re-read your report today...as others have said...great writing...and you perfectly describe the thrill of the hunt...IMHO the ones that you work the hardest to get turn out to the ones you enjoy the most...you never forget the story behind acquiring them...anyone with a big bankroll can buy someone's registry set...LOL...
Thanks for all of the nice comments folks.
Best, SH
Hey SH - that was a lot of fun. Glad you like the B9. It really is a fantastic coin. It could be many years before anyone of that high of a grade comes to market.
SH,
I have always enjoyed reading your new coin purchases along with your show reports for quite some time now and I must say I couldn't wait to get to Denver this time around and maybe have an opportunity to meet up with you and talk bust quarters and/or photography/photoshop. Interestingly, you have gone undetected and flew under my radar this time, so I will say to you here (this posting) that I am impressed with your continuing eye for quality throughout many of the U.S. Series. Your show reports are very interesting and the coin photography and graphic design work is very professional! I love it all. Keep up the great work.
Hopefully, in a week (or so), I can dig through my files and give you a short back story on how the 1818 B-9 LDS Browning plate coin was acquired with the help of my friend, Mike Clark, an upcoming Catherine Bullowa coin auction, a phone call, some guessing and a bit of a gamble. Back then (2005), we "still" were all guessing if the collection was ever going to surface or if it even existed! Little did we all know....
Rory
Enjoyed numismatic conversations with Eric P. Newman, Dave Akers, Jules Reiver, David Davis, Russ Logan, John McCloskey, Kirk Gorman, W. David Perkins...
HI Rory,
Thanks for the kind words. You were in the row behind me and 3 seats to the right at the JRCS meeting (I was right in front of John McCloskey)! I meant to introduce myself but I was talking after the meeting to Steve Tompkins and manged to miss you. Yes please post the story about the B-9.
Best, SH
Thanks Easton. Yes those are hard to find.
Best, SH
I also love the clashed arrowheads - neat coin and great report. Good seeing you at the ANA.
Somewhere I believe that I have a copy of the April 2005 Catherine Bullowa sale that offered this quarter. I moved a couple of years ago and can't find the catalog at this time.
Congratulations on the acquisition, and your persistence!
W. David Perkins Numismatics - http://www.davidperkinsrarecoins.com/ - 25+ Years ANA, ANS, NLG, NBS, LM JRCS, LSCC, EAC, TAMS, LM CWTS, CSNS, FUN
Great thread. This is the sort of stuff that makes the forum worthwhile.