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Coins that circulated in early America
Yorkshireman
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I am working on a set of foreign coins that circulated in the early United States. This is not for registry set purposes as I don't care for the small coins needed to compete that set (1/2 & 1 Reales, for instance), but for my own personal enjoyment. Spanish colonial Latin America should no doubt be included.
Is it too much of a stretch to include Spanish coins from the late 1700's? Obviously coins could have made their way from Spain to the colonies and then up to the U.S. Thoughts would be appreciated.
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
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Most definitely include Spanish coins. Check out the history of the pistareen, for instance.
Don't forget to include Dutch and French coins, too.
Also, check out "A Monograph of the Silver Dollar: Good and Bad" by Dr John Leonard Riddell of the New Orleans mint as a phenomenal reference to world crowns circulating in the US in 1845.
As noted, the Spanish 2 reales or pistareen was a very common circulating coin as was the 1 real.
If you check out the registry set I had created and linked in my signature you can see the representative examples as a starting point. It is certainly not exhaustive but I chose 27 coins 3 pages in the digital album) of the major countries, denominations and metals most commonly found in early America with the help of JK and JA.
Latin American Collection
Spanish, Dutch, French and English circulated pretty freely in the 17th & 18th centuries .. even into the early 19th where Canadian Bank tokens were freely accepted along the Northern border States/territories
I like that set, Boosibri, but where are the English sliver coins?
Yep thought a lot about that but favored the Spanish pieces given their dominance in trade.
Elizabeth 6 pence are commonly dug in Jamestown area, certainly some British silver would have circulated.
The set could be expanded but I wanted to keep in manageable for someone attempting the set so a lot of pieces which could have been included were omitted.
Happy to ask for expansion and may consult with @cardinal who has the leading set.
Latin American Collection
I started filling in that set with my silver crowns. I requested a slot for my English crown so we'll see what happens.
I think that instead of the crown which likely circulated very infrequently, the sixpence and shilling would be the appropriate denominations to include. The is much more historical evidence to support their inclusion.
The Crown is listed in the major conversion tables of the period really only because of its reference point as the maximum silver issue where the shilling and six pence are more frequently included in conversion tables of actual circulating coins from foreign countries.
@Pistareen what do you think?
Latin American Collection
The mintage figures and circulation of the crown changed over time. Starting with milled crowns and excluding the Cromwell, Charles II, James II, William & Mary and some of the Queen Anne crowns were minted in reasonable quantity. A crown was a lot of money and the denomination stayed in England/Great Britain for the most part. Crowns from the reign of George I and George II have lower mintage figures even though I am not aware of actual numbers. I suspect collectors would be surprised at just how low the mintage figures are for George II crowns with exception to the 1746 LIMA . Few of these made their way to North America. So it would be a stretch to include a crown as a denomination to the set even without reference to a monarch.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I agree that English crowns would not be a frequently circulated type, however I see the qualification more as "likely to have circulated" vs. "frequently circulated". One of the reasons for the emergency counter-stamped issues is that England could not keep their silver from leaving the country -- I'm not saying that they came to North America in any great quantities -- just that keeping silver circulating in England was a problem at certain times.
I'd say an English crown is unlikely to have circulated and I would not support including it in the set. I would support a shilling or sixpence.
My two pence on the issue.
Latin American Collection
Numerous almanacs and financial reports from the late 1700s show exchange rates for a Crown. Merchants and banks accepted it. Everything else about how widely it did or did not circulate is a speculation. Sounds to me that it should be included in the set. A note to BJ Searls will get that done quickly.
Happy collecting!
8 Reales Madness Collection
Well, in creating this set I did consult with a few experts and the general view was that the crown didn't belong in the set thought sixpence of shilling certainly could.
The crown was used in conversion tables more as a reference for the largest denomination rather than to reflect its circulation. It is unlikely to have circulated and therefore would not fit the theme for the set. I don't think it is speculation given that tables exist for circulating specimens and not just the tables for the largest denominations of each country and I have never heard of a dug English crown though there are frequently dug english sixpence.
Latin American Collection
I respect the opinions of the experts. These opinions are based on decades of collecting and research. Were they able to provide you with period documentation that you then used as basis for your set?
Something like this:
Or was it some kind of a qualitative survey that was used?
8 Reales Madness Collection
Or this:
8 Reales Madness Collection
Could it have circulated, though? Can someone have paid for goods and services with it literally in any public or private establishment at a clearly defined exchange rate?
8 Reales Madness Collection
It's basically logic... the mintages of the crowns of the period were very small.
There weren't enough of them to actually regularly circulate. Could they have circulated, sure. But they didn't regularly (which is what this set consists of, coins in commerce), no.
I tagged @Pistareen in a previous post. If he he's a chance I'm sure his input would be most accurate.
Latin American Collection
That's not the organizing principle of the set. The coins included are intended to be the coins regularly in commerce in early America. Anything could of circulated but an English crown would be a rarity in commerce.
Latin American Collection
What's your used definition of "regular" circulation?
8 Reales Madness Collection
People actually using it. I should have included the sixpence and shilling, there is ample evidence of their physically use in everyday commerce.
The gold denominations were used in large commercial transactions in foreign trade.
Silver was scarce enough for emergency issues to be struck with countermarked 8 reales as we all know. Why on earth would a regal crown circulate in the colonies who were more likely to be sent counterfeit halfpennys that real ones from the British.
Latin American Collection
Including the lower denominations is a good start. I would recommend basing the set on some kind of a contemporary reference to avoid confusion.
8 Reales Madness Collection
I don't know if any definitive contemporary chart exists... here are my notes from
My correspondence with JK:
JK: Believe it or not, after the early 18th century (say 1740-50),
very few English silver or gold coins circulated in America. I have no
records that crowns ever did after the early 1700s. If you wanted to
narrow this down more, I might suggest an Elizabeth 6d, since so many
have been found at Jamestown and in that vicinity.
The notes here reflect my lack of inclusion of British silver. I tried to get to 27 coins for the set to cover three album pages in the Digital Album. I opted for other coins but in any expansion of the set the Elizabethan sixpence would be the next addition.
Latin American Collection
Wow, BB!
You have done a lot of work developing the parameters of this set.
...and the French ecu ?
That is in the PCGS registry set.
yes, and is it documented that it circulated to some significant degree? My unqualified opinion is that large value coins did not get used in day-to-day commerce very much, but rather sat in bank vaults to back up letters of credit.
It wasn't clear from the name of the set how the selections were made. I understand that you can't include all possibilities and that a cutoff was necessary.
The role of the ecu and L d'or is well established. The famous shipwreck Le Chameau of the cost of Nova Scotia contained a huge cargo load destined for the French colonies where they would have been actively used in major trading.
Excluded from the set but well worth inclusion are the original sou marques with the fleur de lis mark from 1640 upon export to the French Colonies and the copper sol de Dardennes which a commonly dug. Credit to JK for that info.
Latin American Collection
From the Colonial Williamsburg online Colonial Coins & Currency... online site:
On the Louis D 'or:
"In order to alleviate the coin shortage in Canada and provide some hard money to pay the troops there, France dispatched the heavily armed pay ship "Le Chameau" ("The Camel") to Quebec in 1724, crammed to the gunwales with gold and silver coins. With the loss of all 316 crew aboard, she fell short of her mark and sank during a storm off the coast of Nova Scotia."
They feature the Ecu as well.
http://www.history.org/history/museums/coinExhibit/printable/section6.cfm
Latin American Collection
The most interesting part of this table is the reference to Half Joes at the bottom. The Half Joe or 6400r from Portugal/Brazil was the most common gold coin in circulation.
Latin American Collection