Not my idea of even 2/3 steps. Nice whack across the left side of the steps too. Numerous tiny ticks on both sides so I'm sure I don't like it as a MS66. Raw this could be $5-10. $375? That's a pass. Price guide is $475 and finest graded is 66+ for a cool $1,000. MS64 on this one is as high as I could grade it.
Ironically, I've submitted MS shield nickels without a luster graze or tick on them...just grainy field luster and die cracks....and got back MS64 grades. Lib nickels don't get graded like this either. I thought modern coins were supposed to be graded tougher than the classics? Has that changed now too?
Welcome. I guess we know what you collect. In case you have not done it yet, here is a suggestion that someone gave to me so I'm passing it on. Go on the Internet and read up on Full Step nickels. This has been an evolving thing on TPGS labels. FS, then 5FS, then 6FS and apparently back to FS if this is a "new" holder.
Unfortunately, the FS designation is not something that everyone agrees on. For example, some say there should be no marks across the step lines on a full step coin. That never made sense to me because a coin's strike has nothing to do with the marks on it. However, I suspect that the prices some of these FS pieces bring is for "perfect" full steps. It can be a complicated issue as some dates are possibly allowed to have less "full steps" than other dates; yet still get FS. Have fun!
The issue may be the lighting in part. I cannot though get passed the huge nick on the steps themselves. If I had to call it I would suggest a mechanical error may of been made. No one will buy this as a FS coin that collect these. Its just not even close to being all there.
I have looked at literally thousands of Monticello steps. These are not even close to being full steps. I would agree with above, has to be a mechanical error on the label. No PCGS grader would have passed that on as full steps. Everyone makes mistakes, even our host.
BTW, Welcome fullstepnickels!! A number of good reference books on the subject.
@AllCoinsRule said: "That's not full steps by my definition but that's how they're graded now. All over the place like that."
I don't believe it and have not seen it. If what you say is true, we are all toast! That coin does not have 6 steps even w/o the hits. The only explanation is ME or "commercial date grading." You know how that is full "whatever" (BL, bands, breast feathers, head, etc) for the date and mint. The TPGS have been moving in this direction for decades.
If one looks at the seller's other FS Jeffs they cover a wide range as IS2 suggested. The 1990 MS66 FS has a glorious strike. Others, even worse than the OP's coin. I was surprised that some proofs don't even have full steps. I was always under the assumptions from the later 1950's and 1960's proofs I had seen that they ALL came with full steps.
Even if the steps are all there and it is a lighting issue, the big gash breaks several steps and that precludes the coin being a genuine FS. Either a mechanical error or was graded FS long ago when the standards were different and then reholdered.
Thank you all for your input. I too feel the coin is not a full step, much less a
MS66 coin. As a collector for over 40 years, I've learned you buy the coin,
not the slab regardless of what grading house slabbed it. As Roadrunner pointed out,
this coin without the MS66 grade and full step designation is a raw BU at best, $5 no more.
I honestly could not give this coin better than a MS62 grade. I contacted the seller of this
coin via email two weeks ago questioning the grade and designation. I received no reply
and the coin has remained on the market. I then contacted PCGS via email over a week ago. I finally
got a response 7 days later with the following;
Good Afternoon Lynden,
Thank you for contacting PCGS Customer Service.
**PCGS is not able to render an opinion on whether a coin is authentic or not by a picture. If you would like our expert opinion on authenticity and grading of your coin we would love for you to submit your coin to us.
If you have questions pertaining to information about your coin, PCGS recommends contacting a PCGS Authorized Dealer in your area. PCGS Authorized Dealers are experts in the industry since they buy, sell, and determine the value of coins. They should be able to shed some light on your particular coin or coins. To locate a PCGS Authorized Dealer in your area please go to: www.PCGS.com/Dealers.
If any questions remain, please do not hesitate to reach out to PCGS Customer Service at (800) 447-8848. A Customer Service Representative will be available Monday through Friday from 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. (PST) to answer remaining questions.
Best,**
Honestly, IMO, the pictures of this coin posted on ebay are pretty darn good in showing detail, both good
and bad. So good, I wish all sellers of coins could post this quality of pictures. No amount of
angle or good/bad lighting can make a man-hole cover look better than what it is.
I would have thought PCGS main office would have contacted the PCGS dealer selling this coin
for feedback as to whether a regrade of this coin is warranted for the sake of integrity for both PCGS,
the seller/PCGS dealer, and for the hobby we all enjoy. Again, this coin is an example as to why
you buy the coin, not the holder. Again thank you all, and my apologies for being so long winded with my
comments.
@AllCoinsRule said: "Plenty of people are already toast. Look at the pictures of the 1938 and 1939 R38 nickels on coinfacts. 39-d went from pop 2ish and over $7500 coin down to a pop over 10 and under $1000 in a period of a few months. I got a newly graded 79-p in pcgs 66fs a few weeks ago and had to return it to the seller as it was 4.5 steps with even the 4th step showing weakness under pillar 3. (The seller tried to convince me it was "full" too but no way, not close)."
Well, I will not argue. I don't look at many coins on Ebay as I consider the place the sewer of numismatics.
As far as the pops, the coins that are true to the grade are going to stand out. The folks who know a series also know what is rare and what is not in spite of a high mintage or a high number of graded examples.
I remember back in the early 80's wanting to put together a high grade Jeff set for a folder.
The dealer I was using at that time asked me if I wanted to shoot for FS or just great eye appeal
coins. I asked him to show me examples of both.....remember this is before the plastic craze.
Some coins he called FS were in that gray zone, but the price difference was in the gold zone.
Still have that set put away in a folder with a few FS thrown in that were not sold to me as such.
Glad I made the decision I made as the coins are sweet, even the non FS ones.
The coin in the OP is one of those that I would question.
@Insider2 said: @AllCoinsRule said: "Plenty of people are already toast. Look at the pictures of the 1938 and 1939 R38 nickels on coinfacts. 39-d went from pop 2ish and over $7500 coin down to a pop over 10 and under $1000 in a period of a few months. I got a newly graded 79-p in pcgs 66fs a few weeks ago and had to return it to the seller as it was 4.5 steps with even the 4th step showing weakness under pillar 3. (The seller tried to convince me it was "full" too but no way, not close)."
Well, I will not argue. I don't look at many coins on Ebay as I consider the place the sewer of numismatics.
As far as the pops, the coins that are true to the grade are going to stand out. The folks who know a series also know what is rare and what is not in spite of a high mintage or a high number of graded examples.
Which means eventually those nicer coins for the grade have to someday return to the TPG's for re-grading to achieve their proper ranking and pricing. In this way "most" MS/PF coins worth over a few hundred $$ have to keep on returning every 5-10 years for a regrade....to ensure a coin sells for what it should. The only way to bypass this system is going to major auction with a killer fresh collection with lots of potential upgrades....the sharks will pay up to next grade in that environment....just like they did for fresh raw coin auctions of the past. It only takes 2-3 bidders out of 100 who see a coin as a "sure" upgrade....and they bid accordingly. The other option is getting a gold CAC. Those are the options.
Not if you look at the other FS nickels on that seller's Ebay site. The same issues are there with a number of others. Could this be giving coinage from the early 1980's more leeway because QC was so poor at the mint for many of them?
@fullstepnickels... Welcome aboard.... After reviewing the pictures, my conclusion is, it is not full steps. Seems like a mechanical error. That being said, you cannot expect a determination from PCGS until they have it in hand. Cheers, RickO
Comments
All opinions are welcome.
Some Jefferson's I like, not that one
Not my idea of even 2/3 steps. Nice whack across the left side of the steps too. Numerous tiny ticks on both sides so I'm sure I don't like it as a MS66. Raw this could be $5-10. $375? That's a pass. Price guide is $475 and finest graded is 66+ for a cool $1,000. MS64 on this one is as high as I could grade it.
Ironically, I've submitted MS shield nickels without a luster graze or tick on them...just grainy field luster and die cracks....and got back MS64 grades. Lib nickels don't get graded like this either. I thought modern coins were supposed to be graded tougher than the classics? Has that changed now too?
Not even close.That definitely would not grace my collection.
@fullstepnickels
Welcome. I guess we know what you collect. In case you have not done it yet, here is a suggestion that someone gave to me so I'm passing it on. Go on the Internet and read up on Full Step nickels. This has been an evolving thing on TPGS labels. FS, then 5FS, then 6FS and apparently back to FS if this is a "new" holder.
Unfortunately, the FS designation is not something that everyone agrees on. For example, some say there should be no marks across the step lines on a full step coin. That never made sense to me because a coin's strike has nothing to do with the marks on it. However, I suspect that the prices some of these FS pieces bring is for "perfect" full steps. It can be a complicated issue as some dates are possibly allowed to have less "full steps" than other dates; yet still get FS. Have fun!
In my opinion, at least from the image, no way. But many times the angle of the lighting will play tricks on your eyes.
I just verified that this is indeed a Full Steps coins.
Look under Jefferson's shoulder near the room and you'll see the designation...."FS."
No way. Has to be a mechanical error. The left half of the building isn't even fully struck.
Collector, occasional seller
The issue may be the lighting in part. I cannot though get passed the huge nick on the steps themselves. If I had to call it I would suggest a mechanical error may of been made. No one will buy this as a FS coin that collect these. Its just not even close to being all there.
I have looked at literally thousands of Monticello steps. These are not even close to being full steps. I would agree with above, has to be a mechanical error on the label. No PCGS grader would have passed that on as full steps. Everyone makes mistakes, even our host.
BTW, Welcome fullstepnickels!! A number of good reference books on the subject.
I'm no expert on this subject so I am learning here also...welcome to the forum
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Bad transactions with : nobody to date
@AllCoinsRule said: "That's not full steps by my definition but that's how they're graded now. All over the place like that."
I don't believe it and have not seen it. If what you say is true, we are all toast! That coin does not have 6 steps even w/o the hits. The only explanation is ME or "commercial date grading." You know how that is full "whatever" (BL, bands, breast feathers, head, etc) for the date and mint. The TPGS have been moving in this direction for decades.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/Jefferson-1938-Now/41087/m.html?item=311915495246&epid=170444820&hash=item489f9cbf4e:g:MokAAOSwF1tZbn7g&_ssn=tnfc&Certification=PCGS
If one looks at the seller's other FS Jeffs they cover a wide range as IS2 suggested. The 1990 MS66 FS has a glorious strike. Others, even worse than the OP's coin. I was surprised that some proofs don't even have full steps. I was always under the assumptions from the later 1950's and 1960's proofs I had seen that they ALL came with full steps.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-P-Jefferson-Nickel-5c-MS66-FS-PCGS-/192162171549?hash=item2cbdc20a9d:g:puUAAOSwEBxZbn1L
I'm not seeing full steps there but.... lighting and the picture quality could play a factor
HAPPY COLLECTING
Even if the steps are all there and it is a lighting issue, the big gash breaks several steps and that precludes the coin being a genuine FS. Either a mechanical error or was graded FS long ago when the standards were different and then reholdered.
Thank you all for your input. I too feel the coin is not a full step, much less a
MS66 coin. As a collector for over 40 years, I've learned you buy the coin,
not the slab regardless of what grading house slabbed it. As Roadrunner pointed out,
this coin without the MS66 grade and full step designation is a raw BU at best, $5 no more.
I honestly could not give this coin better than a MS62 grade. I contacted the seller of this
coin via email two weeks ago questioning the grade and designation. I received no reply
and the coin has remained on the market. I then contacted PCGS via email over a week ago. I finally
got a response 7 days later with the following;
Good Afternoon Lynden,
Thank you for contacting PCGS Customer Service.
**PCGS is not able to render an opinion on whether a coin is authentic or not by a picture. If you would like our expert opinion on authenticity and grading of your coin we would love for you to submit your coin to us.
If you have questions pertaining to information about your coin, PCGS recommends contacting a PCGS Authorized Dealer in your area. PCGS Authorized Dealers are experts in the industry since they buy, sell, and determine the value of coins. They should be able to shed some light on your particular coin or coins. To locate a PCGS Authorized Dealer in your area please go to: www.PCGS.com/Dealers.
If any questions remain, please do not hesitate to reach out to PCGS Customer Service at (800) 447-8848. A Customer Service Representative will be available Monday through Friday from 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. (PST) to answer remaining questions.
Best,**
Honestly, IMO, the pictures of this coin posted on ebay are pretty darn good in showing detail, both good
and bad. So good, I wish all sellers of coins could post this quality of pictures. No amount of
angle or good/bad lighting can make a man-hole cover look better than what it is.
I would have thought PCGS main office would have contacted the PCGS dealer selling this coin
for feedback as to whether a regrade of this coin is warranted for the sake of integrity for both PCGS,
the seller/PCGS dealer, and for the hobby we all enjoy. Again, this coin is an example as to why
you buy the coin, not the holder. Again thank you all, and my apologies for being so long winded with my
comments.
Gift from the graders.
Not FS.
Yep. Full steps. Definitely. Yep. At least SOMEBODY thinks so. Yep. Full steps. It's a lock. Full steps. FULL STEPS.
Not with that gash
Steve
@AllCoinsRule said: "Plenty of people are already toast. Look at the pictures of the 1938 and 1939 R38 nickels on coinfacts. 39-d went from pop 2ish and over $7500 coin down to a pop over 10 and under $1000 in a period of a few months. I got a newly graded 79-p in pcgs 66fs a few weeks ago and had to return it to the seller as it was 4.5 steps with even the 4th step showing weakness under pillar 3. (The seller tried to convince me it was "full" too but no way, not close)."
Well, I will not argue. I don't look at many coins on Ebay as I consider the place the sewer of numismatics.
As far as the pops, the coins that are true to the grade are going to stand out. The folks who know a series also know what is rare and what is not in spite of a high mintage or a high number of graded examples.
I remember back in the early 80's wanting to put together a high grade Jeff set for a folder.
The dealer I was using at that time asked me if I wanted to shoot for FS or just great eye appeal
coins. I asked him to show me examples of both.....remember this is before the plastic craze.
Some coins he called FS were in that gray zone, but the price difference was in the gold zone.
Still have that set put away in a folder with a few FS thrown in that were not sold to me as such.
Glad I made the decision I made as the coins are sweet, even the non FS ones.
The coin in the OP is one of those that I would question.
Which means eventually those nicer coins for the grade have to someday return to the TPG's for re-grading to achieve their proper ranking and pricing. In this way "most" MS/PF coins worth over a few hundred $$ have to keep on returning every 5-10 years for a regrade....to ensure a coin sells for what it should. The only way to bypass this system is going to major auction with a killer fresh collection with lots of potential upgrades....the sharks will pay up to next grade in that environment....just like they did for fresh raw coin auctions of the past. It only takes 2-3 bidders out of 100 who see a coin as a "sure" upgrade....and they bid accordingly. The other option is getting a gold CAC. Those are the options.
Got to be a mechanical error
Not if you look at the other FS nickels on that seller's Ebay site. The same issues are there with a number of others. Could this be giving coinage from the early 1980's more leeway because QC was so poor at the mint for many of them?
@fullstepnickels... Welcome aboard.... After reviewing the pictures, my conclusion is, it is not full steps. Seems like a mechanical error. That being said, you cannot expect a determination from PCGS until they have it in hand. Cheers, RickO
Not a full step in my world.
Judging by the picture it's definitely not FS, although I've seen coins that looked terrible in pictures but actually look great in hand.