Should PCGS adjust their inserts to make room for a CAC sticker?
braddick
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I've seen some CAC stickers placed on PCGS slabs where it partically covers some of the insert label's information. Would it be advisable for PCGS to offset the label information slightly to the left and thus allow a CAC decal to be applied on the right side, leaving a better presentation?
peacockcoins
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They would be wise to texture the label area so that a sticker would be very uncomfortable and not adhere.
Somehow I suspect that PCGS doesn't really care much about sticker presentation.
PCGS won't do it. If anything, CAC should be a little more observant as to where their stickers are placed as to not cover up the info that was there first.
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Perhaps they should just place the sticker over the coin. It's the label and CAC sticker that are most important, right? Who needs to actually see the coin when you have 2 experts agreeing on what is in the slab.
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Suggested new thread title "CAC stickers? More or less consistency than CAC Saints?"
PCGS could just as well include a copy of the insert in the cert number lookup too.
If the customer is paying then I think they can figure out a better way to serve customer needs without changing much and label placement is important. CAC should be more careful PCGS is the customer to them. PCGS will hear from its customers too if a big issue.
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If it's not broken don't fix it.
I am genuinely curious. I honestly don't believe there is contention between the two services. Once PCGS grades a coin if you decide to get a second opinion, why would they care? It's like going to a second doctor for another opinion regarding a health issue. The first doctor, confident in his abilities, wouldn't care and would possibly encourage it. Same with mechanics and the same with a grading service.
This idea that PCGS is down on CAC is overblown.
peacockcoins
PCGS is smart enough to know that the PCGS CAC combination realizes the most dough. It's one of the reasons why these CAC threads are allowed to live.
From the beginning I wanted the sticker to be on the reverse
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
No
it's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide
No.
No absolutely not. CAC extremely small pct of PCGS coins. I have only 1 CAC coin in my inventory.
If anything CAC should pay PCGS a fee or royalty for putting their business / promotion on their product.
CAC stickers on the reverse will slow down the works....at least for me. Imagine having to flip over additional coins in a bourse case to see if its stickered. Or when flipping through a double row box of slabs you have to check the back side of every coin, even if at first it didn't catch your eye. I still like the ease in being able to scan a standard bourse case in 5-15 seconds for anything warranting a closer look. Identifying stickers in that time frame is part of the fare.
When it comes to the better coins (ie more expensive) you'll find that that a fairly high percentage of them (such as gem 19th century type) have been to CAC. In the shallower end of the pool where the risk is less, I'm sure a small percentage have been stickered. Two different markets. There are major dealers that have a hundred or more CAC coins (ie Legend). I would suspect that a majority of bourse dealers who handle choice/gem slabbed type coins would run about 10-30% in total CAC coins. My rule of thumb on the bourse for what I collect would be to more quickly dismiss a table not displaying any CAC coins. I don't need to get into knocking heads with them on why they don't need it. Some dealers out there have almost no CAC coins. But, strongly feel ALL of their coins meet or exceed CAC standards....yeah...go figure that one out.
Peanut butter and jelly go well together.
That's why they're sometimes on the same shelf, and sometimes share the same package.
I really like that idea as I'm not so fond of that sticker.
I have always been very impressed as to how well the CAC stickers are applied. I have always found them to be placed neatly and squarely on the slab,,,,,,never seen one that was tilted or crooked,,,,, sometimes there is no room to put on a sticker where something won't be partially covered but I think they do a very good job on how well they palce the stickers.
What better way to spotlight the fact that you DON'T have a sticker.
Stick them on the back if you have to have them.
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What about on the top edge?
So you can know which coins to even pull out of the box as none of the others would be worth looking at.
They should just make the top edges of the ones that don't pass all jagged. Double dose of pain. I keep all the ones that didn't pass under my windshield wiper. No one takes them.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
What about a CAC cattle brand applied to the fanatic's forehead? I think that would truly certify the faith!
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
Not a chance in hell. You think they give 2 damns about CAC? Personally, I think CAC need to do something about their sticker.
Was that a typo or did "pass on" mean what you consider CAC rejects have done?
Good catch sir
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Nope.
Next week CAC might change their stickers or fold....Does PCGS then have to change again?
Business Rule #17 - do not accommodate competitors or hangers-on.
Did someone say, "FOLD?"
From the beginning I made it clear that it seemed silly to put the sticker on the front of the holder. The reverse would have made a bigger statement. Now it's IN YOUR FACE. And you thought Kool-Aid tasted great ! No skin off my nose and it ain't my business.
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I'm real glad there is CAC out there. Fools want to see nothing but a green sticker and pass on anything less. It really does leave me with millions of nice unCAC'd coins to choose from. Do you CACers know only a fraction of a fraction of PCGS and NGC coins have seen CAC, and most never will? You guys will have so much invested in plastic and stickers you'll lose anyway. Have fun!
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This is exactly what came to my mind. Have a small area on the back for all the extra stickers.
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There should be a plastic tab that hangs off the side of the coin on the upper right or lower right where the stickie
can be slapped.
Tab would be fluorescent green and would glow in the dark, thus enhancing the appearance of the otherwise dull green bean. What say you??
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
Recently at a show setup at I saw only 2 CAC coins - one in my case and one in another dealers.
On guy wanted a price on my CAC coin - after I quoted him the price he walked off - they don't wanna pay the money for them.
The simple solution is PCGS could just print the sticker on the label. This would save a lot of time for everyone.
Is there anything of greater import than the green bean on a PCGS slab?? (Yeah, yeah...the coin...whatever...).
They need to come up with a combo wooden embossed box that combines heralds from PCGS and CAC. The coin will be referenced, but is optional...
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Yet there are millions of stickered coins out there. I see tons at every show. A lot of collectors insist on CAC and will often walk away from a table full of non CAC coins without uttering a word.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Let's break down the fallacy of a "fraction of a fraction." For the example I will use MS64-MS68 w/m seated quarters....a popular type coin. One would expect the % being stickered to rise with each grade as the price shoots higher. I will figure PCGS pops to cover the total coins currently in holders. If you assume NGC has the same basic number, and a 100% resubmission rate between them, then PCGS pops alone could be a fair approximation.
MS64 - 1499 coins / 178 CAC / 11.9%
MS65 - 752 coins / 157 CAC / 20.9%
MS66 - 596 coins / 193 CAC / 32.4%
MS67 - 256 coins / 131 CAC / 51.2%
MS68 - 15 coins / 12 CAC / 80%
Clearly, a high percentage of MS66 and better coins are going to CAC. In grades of MS67 and MS68 it is essentially a requirement. Looks like my estimate of a 2X submission rate up to 2008 is probably no longer good. How about a 3X total resubmission rate as of 2017 (once every 8-10 yrs)? You could even assume a 4X resubmission rate and you'd still have a 25% sticker pops for MS67 and 40% at MS68. Those are large percentages showing that CAC has seen many or most of the coins in these grades....after 9 years you'd expect it. If you're playing with gem gold/silver/copper type....stickers are getting to be a way of life.
Most experienced collectors of type can tell a decent MS64 seated quarter w/o a sticker...and at a price of $600 or so, it's not a killer between lower end to solid for the grade. Basically, each grade jump above MS65 adds another 50% to the % coins being CAC'd. If you aren't seeing MS65-68 CAC stickered type coins at your major shows, that would be a possible sign that the coins are going into stronger hands and leaving the market.
I think it would be great if PCGS moved to Far Hills, NJ so it could submit all coins to CAC after grading so the CAC sticker could be placed inside the holder. CAC could evaluate the coins in flips and then the text on the PCGS slab could then be adjusted to cater to the sticker and the collector would only have to pay shipping once. As a plus, it would make it harder to fake a CAC sticker and would protect legitimate stickers from potential damage (no one likes a scratched up or otherwise damaged sticker).
...
Thats pretty ridiculous.
Just because your inventory doesn't feature many CAC coins doesn't mean that that reflects what the market desires
Latin American Collection
My guess is that this idea would be rejected for marketing reasons. You would want your insignia to jump out immediately to customers and place it on the side the customer will see first (I.e. where the TPG insert is).
I'm sure that was it
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Tough to walk a bourse and see a sticker on the reverse when face down in a case.
Latin American Collection
Make it a round sticker that is a tad bit smaller....
What REALLY needs to happen is PCGS needs to leave the coins out of the slabs and send them back with just a label inside. That way CAC can easily access the large blank space left over in order to place their stickers. Or better yet, they should forget the slab altogether (that's a lot of plastic waste!) and just send the label - CAC can just sticker the back of it.
All I can say is LMAOROTF!
On the "fraction of a fraction" rebuttal. I have no problem, and its probably the wise thing to do when you have a MS66-MS68 coin is to have it CACed. These are usually high priced commodities that need to be verified. The funny thing is most of the CAC coins I see are on MS64 Booker T. Washington commems and the like. that's just dumb.
Isn't that what the grading services for? If not, why do we need these services and why am I paying submission fees?
What about the other stickers? like QA, photoseal, dealers inventory, .....