Who invented numismatic terms?
RogerB
Posts: 8,852 ✭✭✭✭✭
Mathematician John W. Tukey of Bell Labs and Princeton University coined the term “bit” to describe a binary digit.
Walter Breen invented the phrase "coiner's caviar."
Yours truly invented the term "numismyth."
Can you name others?
0
Comments
I cannot name others myself, but I have always wondered who came up with the term 'cud' to describe coins struck with broken dies, with pieces missing.
I don't know who came up with the term "sliders". It's not a grade but it's between AU and MS.
I think Arby's sold them like hot cakes, long after coin dealers and TPGs coined the term.
That one's easy – Mort Goodman coined the name CUD
Because many of these large die brakes look like cow's Cud
A cow's cud was what they chewed up and spit out. So the blobs of metal look like
That . Like clipped planchet being shorthand for incomplete planchet punch,
So the term Cud became the shorthand term for these small and large blobs of metal on the coin.
A slider was a coin that was technically an AU,but could still slide into the uncirculated category to sell it as an unc. to the retail collector.
The term also could've come from the European habit of keeping Coins in cabinets and they would slide back-and-forth over the decades or years as the drawers were opened up leaving "slide marks" or turning in a coin into an AU
Blush. I'll just say that the pioneers in their field get to name things. Many of them "stick."
On one hand, much of the time the term just described what was done so no one actually invented it. Adjustment Marks is a case for this. On the other, I think J.P. Martin came up with "light-dynamic" to describe moving a coin through the light.
I think Bowers popularized the term "Cabinet Friction" that was already in use.
Additionally, some terms were taken from other fields and applied to what we see on our coins. Mold Cracks, Edge Seam, and Depressions all came from metal casting. Mud Cracks came from Geology.
"That one's easy – Mort Goodman coined the name CUD
Because many of these large die brakes look like cow's Cud
A cow's cud was what they chewed up and spit out. So the blobs of metal look like
That . Like clipped planchet being shorthand for incomplete planchet punch,
So the term Cud became the shorthand term for these small and large blobs of metal on the coin."
That's what I love about this place. Great information and answers to questions from the resident brain trust. Asked and answered. Thank you, Fred.
I believe Breen coined the term "rugosity" to explain the hide on a well struck Buffalo Nickel. It's not used as much as other common ones, but I always liked it.
Pete
Didn't Walter Breen also come up with the term "business strike?"
Orange Peel ??
Steve
If that term was not already around in the 1970's, the authenticators at the Treasury Dept. or ANACS coined it.
In the early 1970's an ANACS authenticator coined such terms as:
"Spider Web Crystals"
"Wormy Tool Marks"
"Halo Effect"
"Mud Cracks"
"Original Planchet Surface Impact" (OPSI) marks
Don Taxay coined the term "piece de caprice" for the most common type of pattern coins. The definition of caprice means a sudden and unaccounted for change. It is a synonym for whim and whimsy. For coins, it sounds better than the other term used for these, "fantasy coin".
Some dictionary definitions of caprice have used mood, weather and other things as examples, but the Cambridge Dictionary has a fitting definition as used by Taxay:
Although now discredited, remember the term 'suction marks' once used to describe clash marks? I'm sure the originator of that term is content to remain anonymous.
Breen's "Roman Finish" has always bothered me.
It obscures essential technical information and, likely, ignorance of it. A personal observation from having gotten high with him in the 80's; a tendency towards poetic pomposity (delivered rather airily and archly) when he saw some of his arguments wearing thin.
I wish I knew enough at the time to have gone at it with him about satin, sandblast and matte.
@RWB, his alt
and John Dannreuther have made paradigm-shifting advances in this area that reveals Breen's initial collating work in 20th century proof coinage to be the mundanity that it actually was.
CaptHenway assures me he did not take psylocibin.
He has a droll sense of humor perhaps, but not this other fellow's sense of poetry.
I think Art Kagin was the first person to call a half a "Walker" and the BG-302 and BG-303 Cal Fractionals "Peacocks".
What is now proved was once only imagined. - William Blake
I wanted to used this in an "another MPL" thread a day or two ago to describes the micro-granular surfaces on true proofs. Clever use of the word, which I just this moment checked. It's defined as "a measure of small-scale variations of amplitude in height of a surface".
Although I think it is a misnomer, Carr coined the term "fantasy coin" which seems to have gained some currency in certain cohorts/segments of the market.
John Albanese gets credit for "stickered" or coins that do or do not "sticker," as well as for "CACed" coins.
Fantasy was used by Breen and others to refer to US Mint made patterns in the 1800s before Carr started his production.
I didn't know that (as I usually ignore Breen). Thanks!
[(Yes, Breen concocted the misnomer "business" strike, not realizing that ALL coins are part fo the mint's business. Some are trying to return to more accurately descriptive terms such as "circulation strike" and "proof strike" but it's an up hill battle.
]
Fascinating responses! Is anyone compiling these? Would make a neat short article -- just the thing for a YN --- Hint, hint, Kellen....
The earliest mention of "piece de caprice" on the Newman Portal is from September 1957 (New Netherlands "Numisma"). That might be a bit early for Taxay.
Interesting topic.
This is interesting as this term is attributed to Taxay in several areas. Is this a numismyth?
This is from the Bass Foundation website:
This is from Ken Barr and published on E-Sylum:
Many numismatic terms are interesting that were not associated with coins when they first were collected. "Gem"; "cleaned", "smoothed", "tooled", "altered surfaces" and other words to soften possibly a more serious reality of damage.
A list of numismatic terms: http://numismedia.com/glossary.shtml
Hairlines were called "hay marks" in old auction catalogs. Were the coins stored in hay?
I did.
This got me curious about the origin of "hairlines". What kind of hair causes hairlines? Is this due to the practice of brushing?
Leroy Van Allen came up with "counter-clash."
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Of course, now I'm wondering who came up with "clash," since the mint referred to it as "blanking."
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Russ came up with 'Birthmark" and or "Dot Head" Kennedys.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
A few sources credit John Clapp with Booby Head.
@ColonelJessup said: "I wanted to use this [rugosity] in an "another MPL" thread a day or two ago to describes the micro-granular surfaces on true proofs. Clever use of the word, which I just this moment checked. It's defined as "a measure of small-scale variations of amplitude in height of a surface". "
Just a little quibble... Depending on the magnification we can say that virtually all coins show "rugosity." Evan an "orange peel" surface composed of overlapping plates fits that description. For that reason, I don't like it. Furthermore, the ONLY Proof coins with any surface that could be called granular are the "matte" strikes.
Considering that I am far below your IQ level, I have absolutely no Idea what Tom, psylocibin (thanks for teaching me a new word from the drug world!) or poetry has with my posts. Each of those terms was used by professional authenticators to describe the coins they encountered.
PS What does
indicate?
@MrHalfDime said: "Although now discredited, remember the term 'suction marks' once used to describe clash marks? I'm sure the originator of that term is content to remain anonymous."
I believe this term originated in England. It was also used to describe "ghosting" on large pennies.
@logger7 said: "Many numismatic terms are interesting that were not associated with coins when they first were collected. "Gem"; "cleaned", "smoothed", "tooled", "altered surfaces" and other words to soften possibly a more serious reality of damage."
Tom, All these terms were in the numismatic lexicon (EXCEPT "smoothed") decades ago (at least in the late 1960's) - just possibly before you became a professional. You are correct about their use. Today, polished or buffed coins are generally called cleaned. Unfortunately, that dumbs-down the new collectors.
If you went back decade by decade which era did numismatic terms get coined in at a higher rate? The 1960s?
I'm going to guess that by 1980, just about everything we needed was in place. Several terms went through changes. Double die became doublED die and cud became major die break. "Smoothed" is fiction developed in recent times by ancient auction houses for the tooled fields commonly found on ancients.
I'm racking my brain and I cannot think of any other modern terms.
There was a humorous thread about ambiguous terms used by auction companies like "hardly visible edge weakness" for an underweight, clipped coin missing the tops of its legend.
This would be a good place to point out that "centril" is not a word even though everyone uses it to describe the detail (or lack thereof) on the central portion of stars.
It has always formally been doubled die and not double die.
When did tarnish become 'toned'??? Was that with the advent of political correctness?
Cheers, RickO
What about "slab"?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@Insider2
Quibble accepted.
Rugosity - big Shakespeare fan, always a sucker for iambic pentameter.. While not correct in terms of physics, as a visual it works (for me)
When I describe a 1916-1917 WLH I sometimes use the term "granular" (interchangeably with "pebbly"). It's the imagery I'm interested in. Open to suggestions that only semi-dumb down technical explanations of any phenomena.
I've had three different careers; computers, coins and psychology. Each had its own jargon. Sometimes they intersected and the cognitive dissonance was notable.
PMD for an obstetrician is Post Menopausal Distress. If you want to hear the acronyms for some of the neurotransmitters involved...... Oy!
The hippocampus is a water-beast AND an organ in the brain.
Professional language sometimes obscures. Lately I've been giving too many simplistic descriptions of narcissistic personality disorder. Likely I wouldn't have commented on authenticator jargon, but a "term of art" is useful. Depends on the audience.
If I were authenticating, I might, after a while, use the term "spider" or "spidering" to describe Spider Web Crystals, but I think most would get it. Say "spider" to anyone in the stock market and it's code for something else.
O-P-S-I. Pronounced opp-see or each individual letter enunciated? Quibbling, of course.
I make some money as a "crack-out artist", yet do not organize prison escapes.
Sorry, my mistake! How old were you in 1956? You see, when I was a YN our dealers/mentors used the word incorrectly. I believe that I didn't learn the correct usage until sometime in the late 1970's! We can only judge things based on our personal experience. Thankfully, you were taught better than I.
Thanks for the explanation. I confess that much of it was still over my head.
@ColonelJessup said: "When I describe a 1916-1917 WLH I sometimes use the term "granular" (interchangeably with "pebbly"). It's the imagery I'm interested in. Open to suggestions that only semi-dumb down technical explanations of any phenomena."
As you wrote, the early WLH's have a distinct surface finish, I can see "rugosity" being used to describe their roughness. In truth, I never thought about assigning a specific term and considered it to be a "brilliant matte." They do appear granular. Perhaps a member can think of a good description.
@ColonelJessup continues: If I were authenticating, I might, after a while, use the term "spider" or "spidering" to describe Spider Web Crystals, but I think most would get it. Say "spider" to anyone in the stock market and it's code for something else."
Please don't leave me hanging. Stock market code for "spider" is...
As you know, there several types of crystal patterns found on both genuine and counterfeit coins of all ages. Ancient collectors are possibly the most aware of crystallization. Over time, I have learned there is one specific type of crystallization (spider web) that when seen on a coin of any age, type, or composition indicates (in virtually every case) that the coin is counterfeit.
O.P.S.I. is pronounced "opp-see." This is a forty-year-old classroom term virtually unknown to a majority of numismatists.
Thanks again; and be happy.
40+ years doing this, and you just gave me a professional "Wow". Donde esta el emoji ThumbsUp?
Today you are smarter than I am, sir, and I cannot find words enough (thank God!) to express my relief.
If you are serious, thank you. I am not smarter than you today or any day so you deserve a big DISAGREE for your comments. However, you will not get one from me as I wish for my record to stand.
I know who you are. Just because I have become acquainted with one very tiny aspect of numismatics I shall NEVER approach the depth of your knowledge or that of a large number of others here. I will not give up trying though.
Based on its technical definition, I would rather use "rugosity" as a factor in thin-film interference. Or perhaps noting the increase in rugosity of a coin's surfaces after a dip.
On the other hand, I would feel like an dumb-ass if I used it around a buffalo rancher.
I'm not sure if that's rugosity at my feet, but it sure is getting deep.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@MrEureka, whom I've known since he was a beauty-school dropout new to the national tour, recently noted that I may have forgotten far more than I ever knew.
He is another acquaintance I referred to as "others here." All the other "others here" are the reason I have limited my posts on other forums as CU is the very best by far!
I should rather be a small fish in the ocean than perceived to be a big fish in a little pond.
@MrEureka said: "I'm not sure if that's rugosity at my feet, but it sure is getting deep."
Facts are facts, Mr. Lustig. You may consider it vegetarian rugosity, and note I have covered your feet in it also - before I saw your post. LOL.
Twas an ANACS Authenticator long before I was there.
Breen had a column in Coin World for a while, and he once used the phrase "piece de m***e" in a column and was banned from the publication for about a decade.