Hey Feigenbaum...you may want to drop the greysheet price on MS65 Morgans...
Coinstartled
Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
Coinstartled
Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭
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For the record I was an under bidder at $1011.
Low end coins, fetch low end prices. With solid 64's in the $55-$75 range, low end 65's might only really be worth $75-$105. Solid for the grade ones are still bringing the $125. That's another way of saying common date CAC 65's can bring a 15-35% premium just like on many other coins. There were 4 high feed back under bidders who felt they were only worth $66-$95/coin.
Wow, does the GS actually monitor these auctions? A mistake imo, I would have sold them individually. Even to get
Buyers looking for registry fillers may have done a little better on a few of the dates.
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I am guessing that Bill Duggan has a bunch of these.
Underbidders tell little. These are coins graded by the top TPG in the business. I doubt that they were hand selected by the seller as low for the grade. A few years ago this lot would have brought over $1500.
Remember, grey sheet pricing is wholesale bid. Even if it makes many of us queasy, a sale like this should not be ignored if the goal is to reflect a changing market.
Actually, under-bidders do tell a lot. Their bids make up the majority of the coin market. Rarely is the strongest or next strongest under-bidder available to buy up each and every coin/deal. While probably not hand selected as low end for the grade, I suspect if there were solid for the grade examples in there (i.e CAC worthy) they'd have been plucked out and sold via a different means.
I seriously doubt you'll many many nice for the grade 65's in this grab bag. CDN pricing can't even be defined what it means anymore when you have a range of pricing for common MS65 Morgans from $85 to $150+. It's what 2 buyers deem necessary to make a deal involving specific coins in questions. Unless CDN actually sees these 10 coin, they can't make any more sense of the $105 price than you or I can. Yeah, the coins can probably be flipped for $10-$20 more to retail customers on the bourse floors.
These are PCGS coins. Not NGC or Anacs. Down markets have many excuses.
Not surprised in the least. They should be lower.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
A continuing decline in gold/silver, along with stockmarket topping, will drive the 65s even lower
How quiet is the Silver flash crash in Thursday after hours trade .. Silver was down nearly $1.50 in minute
I remember when a friend of mine was paying $250 for raw 65's back in the 80's.
I think the market has figured out that 65 Morgans are not that scarce.
Bags, big gigantic bags of awesomeness!
The price for these coins is not far off the "sight unseen" market for the coins, and it's hardly newsworthy.
CDN prices are said to be estimated wholesale market values for "nice for the grade" coins. As far as I'm concerned, calling them "bids" is misleading. Reported "bids" should be active sight-unseen bids for CAC and non-CAC coins, not estimated values.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
looks likes it time to start a set of slabbed ms64 and ms65 dollars.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
But Andy is Ebay a wholesale market? Any retail customer could pick up these ten assorted dates for well under CDB ask (which I assume is $125 plus 10%.)
Some of the slightly better dates in 65 , ones that cdn for 400-600 range are off by a 100-150 bucks, These were nice and cac , and are fetching less by the amounts I just stated.
@Coinstartled thanks for letting us know. This level affects Bluesheet (currently $111). However, in the case of Morgans an important market maker in Montana is bidding $107 sight-unseen for 100 coins, so it seems that should be the proper level. CAC-stickered MS65's are bid at $140 but we've compromised and set the Bid level at $125. for sight-seen coins.
The same is true, if not more so for the better dates. We highly recommend that people subscribe to Bluesheet AND Greysheet if you deal in Morgans. And now, we have recently added these prices to our web site so it's a lot easier to access the data. (link) The default display is CPG (Retail value) which is free for all users. You will need an active subscription to Grey and/or Blue to see those values.
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
John my understanding is that you will be offering Cac as well as non Cac pricing in the future. In the meantime can you suggest what the discount should be on the 65 Morgans without a sticker? Is 10% from the $125 price reasonable?
He is putting his money where his mouth is , because recently Bill Duggan's weekly newsletter had an article " get out of MS 65 morgan's NOW !!! " .
On the other hand, this other rag I read , called The Glick-sheet, is telling me to " Corner the market on Jackie Robinson 's before its too late " .
Seems like a no brainer to short the widgets and load up on a key date , what could go wrong?
I didn't endorse the acquisition of the Jackie Robinson. I noted the steep drop from peak and another 10-15 in the last month or two.
The Glick-sheet recommends mid grade 19th century proofs in PCGS plastic. No stickers needed. Many of these sub 1000 mintage coins can be had for $400-$1000.
Your heirs will appreciate it!
I simply (and strongly) object to the OP calling out somebody by their real name in the title of a thread, while he himself remains anonymous. But JF responded very nicely.
Mark Glicker is my name. Many know that already.
John and I did substantial business a decade ago when he was running the shop.
eBay is an auction site, not a bid/ask exchange. Coins can sell for high or low prices, as in any auction, without changing anyone's perception of the true value of the coin. It's just the nature of an auction.
John F just told us that the real sight-unseen bid for common MS 65 Morgans is 107 for non-CAC, 140 for CAC. He also told us that the $125 CDN bid is a "compromise". But because there is no bidder at 125, I'd be more inclined to call the $125 price "fictitious". The problem isn't so much that the price is wrong - I'm sure many coins trade in the vicinity of $125 - but that it's wrong to call the price "Bid".
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I don't understand the phrase "what the discount should be". Please explain.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Auctions are liquidation sales, at least for common material. Used car dealers don't send "cream puffs" to auction.
That seems like sensible advice. Buy truly rare, classic coins while the price is down.
You can always go on HA and check various results as well as price guides for free.
When's the last time you attended or viewed a Barrett Jackson, Mecum, R&M, or other collector car auction? There's a major auction every month somewhere in the country. Many of these cars are fairly common by collector car standards.
Legend as well has been basically making that same recommendation for the past 15 yrs, proof Barbers included. Yet in PF61-65 they have basically gone nowhere for the better part of the past 25 yrs. You see dealers recommending gem classic commems for the past 20 years as well because they represent good value. Yet, those too have done nothing but disappoint short of high end and monster toners.
Figured its a good time to put together a Morgan Dollar PCGS65 date Set.
Started this process few months ago and I have only 9 holes left (All 1890's).
I also try to get the OGH MS65 and prefer CAC /PL /DMPLs
Man, those 65 coins in Old Green Holders are superior to today's 65's
Can it go lower? Maybe I should wait?
Aiyeeee! I paid TOO MUCH for a 65 Morgan... :'
(
And even in the "wrong" plastic.......
For everyone interested, and attending the show, we will be hosting an open discussion at ANA World's Fair on Wednesday, August 2 at 11:30am-12:30 in Room 505 at the Convention Center. (link)
Hopefully, @MrEureka will attend as well and we can have a spirited discussion about the pricing of coins in the current market. The specific event is titled "Introduction to the New CDN Collector’s Price Guide presented by John Feigenbaum & Patrick Ian Perez" and I'm sure there will be plenty to talk about.
If you cannot attend, we hope to record the talk, or maybe even post to Facebook live. Thanks!
John
Whitman Brands: President/CEO (www.greysheet.com; www.whitman.com)
PNG: Executive Director (www.pngdealers.org)
John - I've spent enough time with the Collector's Price Guide to understand that it is a retail guide. Not wholesale, not auction levels, but full blown retail. Doesn't seem like the type of publication that I would actually use, but please correct me if I'm missing something.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
That coin IS in the right plastic. Great looking coin in an old fatso....back when MS65's were the real thing. Interesting obverse and reverse clashed 1887 to boot....which don't show up near as often as the lesser or none clashed varieties. Could have a gold bean in its future. And even as a 66 green CAC it would likely be worth 2X generic MS65 money.
Hey @topstuf, that is a clean coin. Has it been to the bean factory? I would give you the current GS bid all day long.
Trying to get rid of it shoot me a PM.
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Good luck!
Cant blame me for trying.
eBay ID-bruceshort978
Successful BST:here and ATS, bumanchu, wdrob, hashtag, KeeNoooo, mikej61, Yonico, Meltdown, BAJJERFAN, Excaliber, lordmarcovan, cucamongacoin, robkool, bradyc, tonedcointrader, mumu, Windycity, astrotrain, tizofthe, overdate, rwyarmch, mkman123, Timbuk3,GBurger717, airplanenut, coinkid855 ,illini420, michaeldixon, Weiss, Morpheus, Deepcoin, Collectorcoins, AUandAG, D.Schwager.
I agree 100%. The notion that what goes down must come up at some point is wrong. It may, it may not.
Thank you for continuing to publish updated pricing guides (from us working in the trade, or playing in the hobby ). Each coin stands on its own merit. Bid higher next time
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Seems a lot discussions ,complaints about price ,guides on price ..have surfaced last couple of months .. what is that foretelling for coin market ?
Not sure what is says going forward but I suspect that many holding inventory are reluctant to see downward but accurate adjustments.
how do we short peace and morgan dollars?
The price reductions not only reflect reality, but they reinforce the downward trend. Most dealers and certainly everyone at the CDN understand this, and none of us is happy about it. One way to break the trend is to resume with the lies, i.e., to report higher prices in a falling market. The other way is to completely rethink and restructure the way that prices are reported. I'm confident that the CDN will opt for the second choice, reasonably soon, and that it will be very healthy for the market in the long run. Of course, as John Maynard Keynes famously said...
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
I agree with you. This will be part of a solution I present in a thread soon to be started
Can't thank you enough for the healthy dose of sarcasm. Is there an edge inscription on the holder "Here lies topstuf" ?
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com
Tell me something. Smell the grass over the grave.