Best rip off buy a dealer.
oldgoldlover
Posts: 429 ✭✭✭
When I was putting together a set of Buffalo's in the early 70s a dealer that that was a very big help to an underfunded collector told me to be very care buying coins in a old holder stapled together. He was at a show and the dealer next to him bought what he thought was a 1916 D Mercury without taking the staple off and looking to coin over. Later on he took the dime out of the holder and saw that the coin was made with the obverse of a 1916 and the reverse of a common date Denver mint dime. The snake had sawed two coins in half and put the reverse with a D on it and the 1916 obverse together. He must have been a good craftsman as it was detected too late and the cut very well done.
May he live eternally in Somalia.
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Comments
That type of ripoff has been noted with Capital holders.
One of the best rip offs I had seen lately was a complete set of raw uncirculated Indian cents at an auction. I saw the pics on the website before the auction and the flags immediately popped up. The auctioneer is not at fault although they called all of them MS65-66 red. That in it's self is bad enough. I got to the auction and looked at them and immediately realized that my gut feeling was correct because all of them were cleaned or whizzed AU and BU. The collector that put this set together was ripped off to no end by a dealer or dealers, and the three main bidders of this set did a pretty good job of wasting their money too as most of the Indians sold for MS63-64 money.
I have not personally been directly aware of any major rip offs, though I have heard such tales. However, there was (may still be) a dealer that set up at shows in the Seattle area that had atrociously overpriced products - slabbed and raw. He preyed on the neophytes... we experienced collectors always just walked on by his table.
Cheers, RickO
I know he sold coins, so people paid his prices, and then were buried in them - and likely will be buried with them.
as noted, the 1916-D Merc trick has been done numerous times with a small Capital holder. another scam from back in the 80's took place with the 1973-S Silver Eisenhower Dollars, the brown boxes. people would crack them open and replace the Silver with a common clad coin.
that was at a time when the coin was priced at around $100.
The 1988 sale of a widow's husband's $500K+ collection certainly is up there on the list. This was set up by the widow getting a super low ball $5,000 offer from the "coin dealer" set up in the Hartford, GFox dept. store. That person knew fairly little and wanted to "minimize" their risk in buying.....lol.
The widow then took the coins to a local Connecticut B&M shop (PNG dealer today) who offered 10X that amount.....$50K. Needless to say, that wasn't a great deal for the seller. I still vividly recall the gem rolls of 1910-s and 1911-s Lincolns that were sold individually as MS64/65/66 RD's for $300-$700 a pop on Teletrade. All from that collection. Plenty of 19th century gem type including proof sets were wholesaled off to dealers at the Boston Bay State show. There so many sharks waiting to feed that they had to take #'s to keep order. This story is now part of forum and coin lore.
Back in the 70's a dealer friend asked me if I could find him a COMPLETE set of Morgans in the WORST possible condition.
Being unlike anything we had previously done, I asked ...why?
He (hopefully just naive) said he didn't know, but some lawyer wanted a complete set in terrible condition.
Soooooooooooooooo.....
Let's all try to think about a will that mentions a "complete set of Morgan Dollars" to be bequeathed.
I wish I weren't so suspicious.
RickO
It seems like the coin world is just like a pool hall in that there are sharks, fish, and mullets.
A shark is an educated, well versed person but has no integrity. They wait until as lesser informed person comes along that thinks they have ore knowledge than they really do.The shark lets them approach them and eats them alive when the time is right.
A fish is a somewhat knowledgeable collector that knows he needs help on occasions so he will not get burned. He so realizes his limitations and need for continued learning and building his network.
A mullet is a collector that thinks he knows it all and does not realize he is on the bottom of the food chain and is someone shark meal.
I played competitive billiards for many years ad saw this happen many times. I loved playing but never went in a pool hall to feed on a mullet or smaller fish.
With respect to coins I have read every book I could find about the few coins I collect. I am always looking at as many coins as I can to learn and the curve is still pretty steep. This puts me in the fish category but if I ever have the opportunity to shaft someone I will pass as coin collecting is a hobby I enjoy very much and have since I was eight years old. I will always be a small player but know how to spot a shark if the coins I are involved. i just cannot collect the universe as I am not smart enough nor did my wife and i marry well from a monetary standpoint.
Perhaps this is what the other guys are referring to when they discuss trifucation of the coin market. Or better said a market of coins.
Thanks for the kind works regarding the two double eagles and early dollars I posted. If you have some extra time look at both coins correctly and see which of the two belongs in a AU 55 holder. The 1855 O was in a 55 in the 1980s but the owner cracked it out as he thought it was a 58. It came back a 53 to my advantage. The hair over Liberty's forehead and the curled hair above the ear are big determination of the grade. Compare the two and let me know what you or anyone else reading this thinks. I like it the way it is and the coin is what it is. PCGS seems to have trouble figuring this one out. Its one my kids will wind up with and without a doubt the more expensive coin I will own unless a $20 1861 O gets out of hand but this date is not considered a key date in the series.
Keep Well