@Coinstartled said:
Redbook has sold 23 million copies over 70 years. They aren't all stacked up in Morelan's basement!
Yeah, my Mom has a Red Book. She also taped merc dimes into an album with scotch tape. (I will need to deal with that soon...)
Red Book <> Serious Collector.
(In my circle of friends, I don't thing there's anyone else I know that even knows that coins are slabbed. As long as I've been collecting, I never even had a coin entombed until 2011...)
I live in a county of a million folks. We support probably ten brick and mortar stores. Using the 250k that would reduce the million population to about 800 coin collectors. Would it really be possible to keep that many shops going with 80 per.
Add the 23,000,000 redbooks sold and the hundreds of thousands of Heritage customers and my million person estimate is more than reasonable. We are not talking about owning a $1000 Morgan but a simple state quarter or silver eagle in NGC or PCGS plastic.
I have given out slabbed coins to non-collectors... Such as a slabbed 70 Marine Corps to my son-in-law who is a former Marine... he keeps that coin on display, but otherwise has no coin collection. I give birth year ASE's to new members of the family, but not slabbed... babies need teething tools. No family members collect coins... I am the only coin nerd. Not, however, the only gun nut. Cheers, RickO
@cameonut2011 said: @ianrussell - How many U.S. members do you have? This might be helpful in answering the OP's question since your firm deals mainly with certified coins.
Hi -
I am fairly sure (okay, my gut is fairly sure) that there are not 1 million people that owned a slabbed coin.
My guesstimate: 250,000-350,000 own a slabbed coin.
Correction: I wasn't considering international collectors/buyers. Perhaps with foreigners included, the number could be 700,000-800,000 - that's close to a million.
@Coinstartled said:
I live in a county of a million folks. We support probably ten brick and mortar stores. Using the 250k that would reduce the million population to about 800 coin collectors. Would it really be possible to keep that many shops going with 80 per.
Add the 23,000,000 redbooks sold and the hundreds of thousands of Heritage customers and my million person estimate is more than reasonable. We are not talking about owning a $1000 Morgan but a simple state quarter or silver eagle in NGC or PCGS plastic.
Your Rebook vs. Slabbing analogy is really weak.
1) Even adjusted for inflation, one Redbook cost much less than one slabbing (the present cost of a spiral bound Redbook is probably in line with $1.75 fifty years ago);
2) very few people ever bought more than one Redbook per year and many only bought one every second or third year - a significant number of buyers only bought one, ever;
3) Slabbing/TPG is a numbers game where one person will own many, if they buy into the concept at all. OTOH, you could be a solid fan of the Redbook and still only need one copy per annum.
You also miss the point of what most coin shops do - most coin shops don't sell near as much locally as they buy stuff locally and ship the stuff out to buyers elsewhere. Much of the coin business is a recycling/asset stripping business.
Thank you Ian. Many agree with the quarter million in the US number on slabs. Again though that leaves the > @BillDugan1959 said:
@Coinstartled said:
I live in a county of a million folks. We support probably ten brick and mortar stores. Using the 250k that would reduce the million population to about 800 coin collectors. Would it really be possible to keep that many shops going with 80 per.
Add the 23,000,000 redbooks sold and the hundreds of thousands of Heritage customers and my million person estimate is more than reasonable. We are not talking about owning a $1000 Morgan but a simple state quarter or silver eagle in NGC or PCGS plastic.
Your Rebook vs. Slabbing analogy is really weak.
1) Even adjusted for inflation, one Redbook cost much less than one slabbing (the present cost of a spiral bound Redbook is probably in line with $1.75 fifty years ago);
2) very few people ever bought more than one Redbook per year and many only bought one every second or third year - a significant number of buyers only bought one, ever;
3) Slabbing/TPG is a numbers game where one person will own many, if they buy into the concept at all. OTOH, you could be a solid fan of the Redbook and still only need one copy per annum.
You also miss the point of what most coin shops do - most coin shops don't sell near as much locally as they buy stuff locally and ship the stuff out to buyers elsewhere. Much of the coin business is a recycling/asset stripping business.
1) a slabbed coin can be purchased on Ebay for under five bucks. A Redbook is about $13.
2) You are correct. If Redbook sells 200,000 copies a year and say the average collector only buys one every 5 years, that means a million individuals have bought a redbook in half a decade. If each owns a slab....that is your number.
3) 60,000,000 slabs divided by the seemingly accepted 250,000 collectors is 240 slabs per collector. Certainly some have that many but in no way is that the norm.
We need Dennis Tucker to chime in with some numbers.
It seems that the majority of slabs sit in dealers and auction houses inventory and the shuffling never stops. Add that to the God knows how many crack outs for upgrades and the number gets even more skewed. Given these perimeters my guess the number of Americans that own slabbed coins is 10.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
If somebody paid $5 for a stabbed coin on eBay, somebody earlier ate the actual cost of the stabbing.
Collectors are somewhat forgetful too - I have a cardboard box somewhere that has 80-100 stabbed modern commemorative silver dollars and silver statehood quarters (all PCGS). I never think about them in terms if my "collection". I was kinda enthusiastic about the uncirculated San Francisco Granite Lady silver dollars. I must have been drunk that year.
@JJSingleton said:
Al, here's the other side of your analysis. Let's say that out of the 60,000,000 coins slabbed by the top two TPGs only half remain. With all the Modern coins slabbed where the crackout game is minimal I think that is plausible. And there are many other TPGs too. So lets say 35,000,000 remain slabbed. With only 100,000 collectors that would mean the average collector has 350 slabbed coins. That is highly unlikely IMO.
Adding in the quarters throws off the calcs...I wonder how many people who have a grouping of SHQs even consider themselves to be collectors?
I think there are 50-60k "serious" collectors, plus 250k casual collectors, plus "other". Is "other" really equal to 700k? I seriously doubt it, but it's very tricky to calculate.
Lots of the slab volume is likely held in bullion vaults, not in somebody's box 'o twenty.
@ianrussell said:
Correction: I wasn't considering international collectors/buyers. Perhaps with foreigners included, the number could be 700,000-800,000 - that's close to a million.
Comments
Yeah, my Mom has a Red Book. She also taped merc dimes into an album with scotch tape. (I will need to deal with that soon...)
Red Book <> Serious Collector.
(In my circle of friends, I don't thing there's anyone else I know that even knows that coins are slabbed. As long as I've been collecting, I never even had a coin entombed until 2011...)
I live in a county of a million folks. We support probably ten brick and mortar stores. Using the 250k that would reduce the million population to about 800 coin collectors. Would it really be possible to keep that many shops going with 80 per.
Add the 23,000,000 redbooks sold and the hundreds of thousands of Heritage customers and my million person estimate is more than reasonable. We are not talking about owning a $1000 Morgan but a simple state quarter or silver eagle in NGC or PCGS plastic.
Take the number of toilet bowl cleaners in each household and divide it by 46.
I have given out slabbed coins to non-collectors... Such as a slabbed 70 Marine Corps to my son-in-law who is a former Marine... he keeps that coin on display, but otherwise has no coin collection. I give birth year ASE's to new members of the family, but not slabbed... babies need teething tools.
No family members collect coins... I am the only coin nerd. Not, however, the only gun nut. 
Cheers, RickO
Hi -
I am fairly sure (okay, my gut is fairly sure) that there are not 1 million people that owned a slabbed coin.
My guesstimate: 250,000-350,000 own a slabbed coin.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Correction: I wasn't considering international collectors/buyers. Perhaps with foreigners included, the number could be 700,000-800,000 - that's close to a million.
Owner/Founder GreatCollections
GreatCollections Coin Auctions - Certified Coin Auctions Every Week - Rare Coins & Coin Values
Your Rebook vs. Slabbing analogy is really weak.
1) Even adjusted for inflation, one Redbook cost much less than one slabbing (the present cost of a spiral bound Redbook is probably in line with $1.75 fifty years ago);
2) very few people ever bought more than one Redbook per year and many only bought one every second or third year - a significant number of buyers only bought one, ever;
3) Slabbing/TPG is a numbers game where one person will own many, if they buy into the concept at all. OTOH, you could be a solid fan of the Redbook and still only need one copy per annum.
You also miss the point of what most coin shops do - most coin shops don't sell near as much locally as they buy stuff locally and ship the stuff out to buyers elsewhere. Much of the coin business is a recycling/asset stripping business.
Thank you Ian. Many agree with the quarter million in the US number on slabs. Again though that leaves the > @BillDugan1959 said:
1) a slabbed coin can be purchased on Ebay for under five bucks. A Redbook is about $13.
2) You are correct. If Redbook sells 200,000 copies a year and say the average collector only buys one every 5 years, that means a million individuals have bought a redbook in half a decade. If each owns a slab....that is your number.
3) 60,000,000 slabs divided by the seemingly accepted 250,000 collectors is 240 slabs per collector. Certainly some have that many but in no way is that the norm.
We need Dennis Tucker to chime in with some numbers.
It seems that the majority of slabs sit in dealers and auction houses inventory and the shuffling never stops. Add that to the God knows how many crack outs for upgrades and the number gets even more skewed. Given these perimeters my guess the number of Americans that own slabbed coins is 10.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
If somebody paid $5 for a stabbed coin on eBay, somebody earlier ate the actual cost of the stabbing.
Collectors are somewhat forgetful too - I have a cardboard box somewhere that has 80-100 stabbed modern commemorative silver dollars and silver statehood quarters (all PCGS). I never think about them in terms if my "collection". I was kinda enthusiastic about the uncirculated San Francisco Granite Lady silver dollars. I must have been drunk that year.
After reviewing that last post, I don't know if spellcheck is right or wrong.
Under $6 on Ebay.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-S-ROOSEVELT-DIME-PCGS-PR69-DCAM-/311882758928?hash=item489da93b10:g:ICAAAOSw8lpZKeLl
I just sold 20 NGC holdered SAE's on Ebay. They brought $3 to $3.50 over melt. Nobody (including me) shelled out $25 each for those holders.
Those coins are surely the result of the MS 70 game. Many hear the call, few are chosen. Somebody paid.
350....I have over twice that many!
Adding in the quarters throws off the calcs...I wonder how many people who have a grouping of SHQs even consider themselves to be collectors?
I think there are 50-60k "serious" collectors, plus 250k casual collectors, plus "other". Is "other" really equal to 700k? I seriously doubt it, but it's very tricky to calculate.
Lots of the slab volume is likely held in bullion vaults, not in somebody's box 'o twenty.
Thanks!