@Wabbit2313 said:
I could go to any show right now, pick out 100 graded coins in old holders, crack them, and have every single one go down. It does go both ways you know. There have always been over and under graded coins.
In fact, most old holder coins at big shows are over graded. Those guys cracked all the good ones long ago.
I agree, 100 old holder coins that have been kicking around the show circuit, are not going to yield many upgrades.
I would love to find coins like this OGH $20 that sold at GC this weekend.
Problem is, they usually don't go unnoticed.
XF45 sold for AU55 money.
@CoinRaritiesOnline said:
Not sure "weird" was what I was thinking when I saw a coin that I sold in an NGC MS63 slab with a Green CAC back on the market in a new NGC MS66 slab.
Wow. Now that one would hurt on multiple levels. Which series?
@CoinRaritiesOnline said:
Not sure "weird" was what I was thinking when I saw a coin that I sold in an NGC MS63 slab with a Green CAC back on the market in a new NGC MS66 slab.
Wow. Now that one would hurt on multiple levels. Which series?
@CoinRaritiesOnline said:
Not sure "weird" was what I was thinking when I saw a coin that I sold in an NGC MS63 slab with a Green CAC back on the market in a new NGC MS66 slab.
Wow. Now that one would hurt on multiple levels. Which series?
The initial up-grader might have netted a profit, but I would guess HA is the biggest winner so far
I dont know how the seated dime market has gone over the 5 years in this history, but I take some solace over the fact that the price jump for the coin as a 63 vs a 66 is not as much as I would expect (or the price guide would suggest), so maybe it is the coin, not the plastic. NGC Priceguide has this at $2300 in 63, $6900 in 66.
@topstuf said:
That move would end the grading companies within an hour.
How so?
All of the payouts due to collectors who left money on the table because the coin was undergraded before its upgrade.
Except that the guarantee would only apply to those coins sent in in a PCGS holder. Sounds like a majority of coins submitted that get upgraded are sent in raw or have been removed from their original PCGS holder. You would need really good pics to assure that a former PCGS ms62 which is now a PCGS ms64 are exactly the same coin with no alterations.
Even if you had really good pics, I don't think PCGS is under any obligation once the coins have been cracked out.
That's true and to quote HRH, once a coin is out of the PCGS holder, all bets are off. Still it would seem that the coin was at one time undergraded. If the coin is initially a 62 and goes through some gyrations [non with doctoring tho] and it comes back a 64 it was clearly undergraded as a 62. Now, Joe BigTime Dealer thinks it's better than a 64 and sends it in as a regrade and gets a 62, plus a fat check since the coin was overgraded. And so the game goes on.
@topstuf said:
That move would end the grading companies within an hour.
How so?
All of the payouts due to collectors who left money on the table because the coin was undergraded before its upgrade.
Except that the guarantee would only apply to those coins sent in in a PCGS holder. Sounds like a majority of coins submitted that get upgraded are sent in raw or have been removed from their original PCGS holder. You would need really good pics to assure that a former PCGS ms62 which is now a PCGS ms64 are exactly the same coin with no alterations.
I think most people do regrades now rather than crack out raw to resubmit (unless a crossover).
That I wouldn't know, but you may well be right. What about the "crackout" artists? Are they now regrade artists?
Except that the guarantee would only apply to those coins sent in in a PCGS holder. Sounds like a majority of coins submitted that get upgraded are sent in raw or have been removed from their original PCGS holder. You would need really good pics to assure that a former PCGS ms62 which is now a PCGS ms64 are exactly the same coin with no alterations.
I think most people do regrades now rather than crack out raw to resubmit (unless a crossover).
That I wouldn't know, but you may well be right. What about the "crackout" artists? Are they now regrade artists?
It is an old term that predates the creation of the regrade tier. The term is still accurate to those that crack other TPG slabs in order to get a coin into more valuable PCGS plastic.
I have a theory that the hardest grading on a coin is the one submitted raw. This leaves room for upgrades by those who have the eye, money, and gumption to resubmit.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
@Coinsponge said:
I have a theory that the hardest grading on a coin is the one submitted raw. This leaves room for upgrades by those who have the eye, money, and gumption to resubmit.
Mine is the opposite. The best grade is achieved with a raw coin, where it can be examined fully without obstruction and there is no prior assigned grade that might influence the decision.
Lance.
@Zoins said:
Anyone see their coins in a downgraded holder?
The Gardner 1833 H1c in NG PR66BN. I sent it in for a crossover with a minimum grade of 65. Came back as such, stickered and went out the door PDQ for a $5000 profit, How was this feat accomplished? I bought the coin at 64BN money in competition with the best upgraders around.
What's my point? There are a lot of coins in NGC holders that are worth more in a PCGS slab 1 point down. Especially if they sticker. Arbitrage is available in many grade/ price ranges
Use your noggin. Grade the holder as well as the coin.
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
What do you think the chances are? If dipping is the key to an upgrade, why aren't the grading services grading them properly since the wear level will be the same after a dip though the luster may be better.
Comments
I agree, 100 old holder coins that have been kicking around the show circuit, are not going to yield many upgrades.
I would love to find coins like this OGH $20 that sold at GC this weekend.
Problem is, they usually don't go unnoticed.
XF45 sold for AU55 money.
greatcollections.com/Coin/461770/1855-Liberty-Gold-Double-Eagle-PCGS-XF-45-OGH
This one.
Coin Rarities Online
sold as a 63 CAC August 2012 $3113
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-dimes/dimes/1865-10c-ms63-ngc-cac/a/1173-3188.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
sold as 66 non CAC June 2013 $4714
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-dimes/dimes/1865-10c-ms66-ngc/a/1186-3200.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
sold as a 66 non CAC June 2015 $3916
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-dimes/dimes/1865-10c-ms66-ngc/a/1221-3861.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515
The initial up-grader might have netted a profit, but I would guess HA is the biggest winner so far
I dont know how the seated dime market has gone over the 5 years in this history, but I take some solace over the fact that the price jump for the coin as a 63 vs a 66 is not as much as I would expect (or the price guide would suggest), so maybe it is the coin, not the plastic. NGC Priceguide has this at $2300 in 63, $6900 in 66.
That's true and to quote HRH, once a coin is out of the PCGS holder, all bets are off. Still it would seem that the coin was at one time undergraded. If the coin is initially a 62 and goes through some gyrations [non with doctoring tho] and it comes back a 64 it was clearly undergraded as a 62. Now, Joe BigTime Dealer thinks it's better than a 64 and sends it in as a regrade and gets a 62, plus a fat check since the coin was overgraded. And so the game goes on.
That I wouldn't know, but you may well be right. What about the "crackout" artists? Are they now regrade artists?
It is an old term that predates the creation of the regrade tier. The term is still accurate to those that crack other TPG slabs in order to get a coin into more valuable PCGS plastic.
I have a theory that the hardest grading on a coin is the one submitted raw. This leaves room for upgrades by those who have the eye, money, and gumption to resubmit.
Mine is the opposite. The best grade is achieved with a raw coin, where it can be examined fully without obstruction and there is no prior assigned grade that might influence the decision.
Lance.
Happens to me all the time. Most annoying example was a Washington I sent in raw and came back 66. It's now in a 67+ holder.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
The Gardner 1833 H1c in NG PR66BN. I sent it in for a crossover with a minimum grade of 65. Came back as such, stickered and went out the door PDQ for a $5000 profit, How was this feat accomplished? I bought the coin at 64BN money in competition with the best upgraders around.
What's my point? There are a lot of coins in NGC holders that are worth more in a PCGS slab 1 point down. Especially if they sticker. Arbitrage is available in many grade/ price ranges
Use your noggin. Grade the holder as well as the coin.
Doug Winter has a couple coins he thinks are potential upgrades:
https://raregoldcoins.com/rare-gold-coin-inventory/just-added-2000-1879-cc-pcgs-ef45-cac
https://raregoldcoins.com/rare-gold-coin-inventory/just-added-2000-1853-pcgs-ef40-cac
What do you think the chances are? If dipping is the key to an upgrade, why aren't the grading services grading them properly since the wear level will be the same after a dip though the luster may be better.