@keets said: An accurate 3-d model with good data doesn't tell stories.
I don't disagree, my point is only that it tells the story you want it to tell. when working with hardened steel, manually lapping to achieve a desired finish is a little different with less control, even for a skilled artisan such as Dan.
I've lapped numerous hardened dies. The location of the VDB on the die is optimal for removing it in this manner. That location being near the rim on the perimeter of the "dish" curvature.
@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
Nice work @dcarr , do you have a scanner and which ones currently available do you find to be with sufficient resolution for coin work? Any commonly used ones you find to be lacking for such use?
I have a one-of-a-kind setup that uses software that I wrote, along with some specialized off-the-shelf optical hardware. It is not something that a typical person could put together and I am not disclosing the proprietary details. I am not really familiar with any other scanning apparatus or how well they work. My arrangement does achieve the level of resolution and accuracy that I want, so I have no reason to look into other devices.
@keets said: An accurate 3-d model with good data doesn't tell stories.
I don't disagree, my point is only that it tells the story you want it to tell. when working with hardened steel, manually lapping to achieve a desired finish is a little different with less control, even for a skilled artisan such as Dan.
I've lapped numerous hardened dies. The location of the VDB on the die is optimal for removing it in this manner. That location being near the rim on the perimeter of the "dish" curvature.
How hard would it be to fabricate a "basining wheel" (or whatever you would call it) of a particular shape to remove metal from the die only near the rim, and leave the great majority of the center of the die intact? Obviously there would have to be some tapering.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@keets said: An accurate 3-d model with good data doesn't tell stories.
I don't disagree, my point is only that it tells the story you want it to tell. when working with hardened steel, manually lapping to achieve a desired finish is a little different with less control, even for a skilled artisan such as Dan.
I've lapped numerous hardened dies. The location of the VDB on the die is optimal for removing it in this manner. That location being near the rim on the perimeter of the "dish" curvature.
How hard would it be to fabricate a "basining wheel" (or whatever you would call it) of a particular shape to remove metal from the die only near the rim, and leave the great majority of the center of the die intact? Obviously there would have to be some tapering.
It might be possible although Lincoln cents have non-symmetrical basining. So using a basining wheel might remove more than the intended detail. A sanding block and sandpaper would probably work better.
@keets said: An accurate 3-d model with good data doesn't tell stories.
I don't disagree, my point is only that it tells the story you want it to tell. when working with hardened steel, manually lapping to achieve a desired finish is a little different with less control, even for a skilled artisan such as Dan.
I've lapped numerous hardened dies. The location of the VDB on the die is optimal for removing it in this manner. That location being near the rim on the perimeter of the "dish" curvature.
How hard would it be to fabricate a "basining wheel" (or whatever you would call it) of a particular shape to remove metal from the die only near the rim, and leave the great majority of the center of the die intact? Obviously there would have to be some tapering.
It might be possible although Lincoln cents have non-symmetrical basining. So using a basining wheel might remove more than the intended detail. A sanding block and sandpaper would probably work better.
However, that would leave just the area around the VDB lowered on the die and raised on the finished coin. I think we would have noticed this by now. A "basining wheel" could lower the outer field evenly and just leave a tapered raised ring around the edge of the reverse.
The more I think of the problem, the more I am inclined to agree with those who say that no finished dies had their VDB ground off.
I will hold open the possibility that some working dies in process during the changeover that were started with the VDB hub, which only had partial images (see the 1914/3 nickel thread), MIGHT have had their final impression(s) from the new no-VDB hub, and that the partial images MIGHT have included faint and/or partial VDB's. However, I have never seen a coin that would support this sheerly hypothetical possibility.
Edited to add: Remember that in 1878 the first Morgan dollar hubs were found to be deficient, and so some working dies in progress were ground down and finished with the new set of hubs.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Not commenting on the 'VDB was removed from LC dies' argument, but I would like to say we do have someone posting on this thread who has a lot of experience actually making dies and striking coins with them, sharing his knowledge here.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
I suspect that that was just the result of a planchet flaw that happened to overlap the initials,
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Thanks CaptHenway. It looks like on the rim to the left of vdb the polishing lines go to the right and on the vdb looks like they're going in the opposite direction to the left. I could be wrong
Comments
I've lapped numerous hardened dies. The location of the VDB on the die is optimal for removing it in this manner. That location being near the rim on the perimeter of the "dish" curvature.
I have a one-of-a-kind setup that uses software that I wrote, along with some specialized off-the-shelf optical hardware. It is not something that a typical person could put together and I am not disclosing the proprietary details. I am not really familiar with any other scanning apparatus or how well they work. My arrangement does achieve the level of resolution and accuracy that I want, so I have no reason to look into other devices.
How hard would it be to fabricate a "basining wheel" (or whatever you would call it) of a particular shape to remove metal from the die only near the rim, and leave the great majority of the center of the die intact? Obviously there would have to be some tapering.
It might be possible although Lincoln cents have non-symmetrical basining. So using a basining wheel might remove more than the intended detail. A sanding block and sandpaper would probably work better.
My guess is he already has 3D models/coins struck up, and possibly has/is doing something of this sort.
I liked his last "experiment" with the Broken Sword dollar!
Well, just Love coins, period.
However, that would leave just the area around the VDB lowered on the die and raised on the finished coin. I think we would have noticed this by now. A "basining wheel" could lower the outer field evenly and just leave a tapered raised ring around the edge of the reverse.
The more I think of the problem, the more I am inclined to agree with those who say that no finished dies had their VDB ground off.
I will hold open the possibility that some working dies in process during the changeover that were started with the VDB hub, which only had partial images (see the 1914/3 nickel thread), MIGHT have had their final impression(s) from the new no-VDB hub, and that the partial images MIGHT have included faint and/or partial VDB's. However, I have never seen a coin that would support this sheerly hypothetical possibility.
Edited to add: Remember that in 1878 the first Morgan dollar hubs were found to be deficient, and so some working dies in progress were ground down and finished with the new set of hubs.
Not commenting on the 'VDB was removed from LC dies' argument, but I would like to say we do have someone posting on this thread who has a lot of experience actually making dies and striking coins with them, sharing his knowledge here.
This 1909 looks like vdb was abraded. I'll start a new thread with more photos
I suspect that that was just the result of a planchet flaw that happened to overlap the initials,
Thanks CaptHenway. It looks like on the rim to the left of vdb the polishing lines go to the right and on the vdb looks like they're going in the opposite direction to the left. I could be wrong