Question about hairlines on an MS coin
Coinsponge
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I have a 1876 s Trade dollar that has some color and I like it but it has a patch of hairlines in a section of the obverse field. Otherwise looks uncirculated to me. Question for the experienced. Would PCGS likely no-grade it or would they just diminish the grade because of it?
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If the hairlines are raised it is die polish...if not from a cleaning and it would not or should not grade problem free.
Funny thing about coins. If one gets banged around mercilessly in a bag so it looks like a loser in a knife fight and is graded accordingly but a coin with some very fine scratches from a careless wipe of a rough cloth is no graded. Just hard for me to get my brain around that one.
I totally agree.
@Coinsponge said: "Funny thing about coins. If one gets banged around mercilessly in a bag so it looks like a loser in a knife fight and is graded accordingly but a coin with some very fine scratches from a careless wipe of a rough cloth is no graded. Just hard for me to get my brain around that one."
I don't have your problem. The first case is natural. The second was caused by some ham-fisted idiot!
@Coinsponge asked: "I have a 1876 s Trade dollar that has some color and I like it but it has a patch of hairlines in a section of the obverse field. Otherwise looks uncirculated to me. Question for the experienced. Would PCGS likely no-grade it or would they just diminish the grade because of it?"
Depends. If you like it, the graders probably will also. The ANA Grading Guide allows a noticeable patch on MS-61, and MS-62 coins.
PCGS will grade a mint state coin with a problem-free MS grade if it has hairlines on it; I see them at shows and in collections.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
If they are not too severe it could grade up to MS62.
If it's a Carson City Morgan, the hairlines are supposed to be covered by bangs, chunks and gouges.
I could just see that "idiot" now. Some distinguished gray haired man behind his beautifully maintained mahogany desk 70 years ago puffing on his pipe and admiring his collection. Thinking... "My, there is a little dust on my coins. I should wipe that off so they don't get dirty and look bad". "There, all better". That's not natural. Then I picture a burly, possibly ham-fisted man with sweat stains in his work uniform tossing bags of newly minted coins from place to place. That is natural. The confusion continues.
Glad to know here there is a chance of a straight grade though. Think I'll give it a shot.
Yeah! We all see them and some of us wonder why ours get the slap on the wrist and others don't!
Unless it is a classic proof then hairlines are welcome, albeit at a lighter grade.
I don't know that they are "welcome", but "tolerated".
This carries a grade of MS62 and in fact did not even get a green bean, even though hairlines are the very definition of an MS62. I would not sell it for multiples of guide.
Just last week I cut (what appeared to be) a beautiful cameo 1963 Franklin out of the government cellophane only to discover it has a wipe across the left obverse field. Some careless packager probably wiped some dust off of the unusually nice coin going into the pack, unwittingly ruining it. :sadface
Collector, occasional seller
As Tom said, hairlines don't prevent a MS / 60+ grade. PCGS and the ANA use market grading which grades a coin according to how much it is worth, not strictly it's technical characteristics. In this case, may MS62 coins are really AU and can be considered "AU62" coins. Hairlines can even merit a 63 grade as shown by this this recent thread on a PCGS PR63 with hairlines.
I have had some battle with the TPGs on what is a hairline versus polishing or similar on die - this should be clear but I am not sure if more than a cursory glance is given to some foreign. Higher dollar lightside coins seem to get a bit more thorough viewing. If there are any hairlines on through to more and more, there is a progression from 63 downwards in my experience.
Well, just Love coins, period.
@clarkbar04...Perhaps it is my screen (albeit a new computer, hi-res Core i7), but I do not see the hairlines on that Buff.... could you be specific as to area? Thank you, Cheers, RickO
@Coinsponge said: "I could just see that "idiot" now. Some distinguished gray haired man behind his beautifully maintained mahogany desk 70 years ago puffing on his pipe and admiring his collection. Thinking... "My, there is a little dust on my coins. I should wipe that off so they don't get dirty and look bad". "There, all better". That's not natural. Then I picture a burly, possibly ham-fisted man with sweat stains in his work uniform tossing bags of newly minted coins from place to place. That is natural. The confusion continues."
That's too bad, it is a simple concept. I was taught when grading a coin NOT TO BE CONCERNED with its "history." A coin's surface is usually an open book - unless it is darkly toned.
Most "wipes" are mechanical problems under pressure. In a class we tried to produce a "wheel mark" (NGC = Wipes). Absolutely IMPOSSIBLE with a rag and your fingers.. Try it. Now I'll need to try a "Magic Erasure." LOL.
This is one of my pet peeves with the TPGS. Rather than educate us by using words like Hairlined, Cleaned, Buffed, and Polished, they call just about everything cleaned. There is a big difference! I've asked a grading instructor to explain it in a column he writes. Unfortunately, what is simple to determine in-hand does not transfer to images very well.
They are from a very light wipe on the reverse in the field under the buffalo. Not visible in these high quality photos or the trueview.
@clarkbar04 ...Thanks, I was trying really hard to see them....
... Nice Buff though... Cheers, RickO
Morgan dollars with a single patch of hairlines and otherwise ok, are marked down by a point, but can still grade above MS60.
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